Genuine F class experience, what is that for you?

[SkyDining]

Do you mean First?

Exactly my point for this topic! Whats the next step in improving the First class experience besides the bigger seat and extra starter you get in J class?

[bmchris]

Exactly my point for this topic! Whats the next step in improving the First class experience besides the bigger seat and extra starter you get in J class?

First class I take to mean the best of everything technologically possible:

- Supersonic flight speeds.
- Ability to land and take off from the nearest convenient airport, or private plane/helicopter connections.
- Priority take off and landing clearance when no other planes on approach/take off are late.
- Privacy to travel with my family in full as being in my own home.
- The comfort and amenities afforded at home within technological reason.
- Flight follows my schedule - I don't follow theirs.

If anyone is saying the above is not feasible - it is - except for the supersonic flight speeds that is.

Google offers the above for its executives. They have a deal with NASA to use NASA owned Moffett Field - across the road from their offices. SJC can be 30-45 minutes away in bad traffic. They run an ex-Qantas B767.

[SkyDining]

First class I take to mean the best of everything technologically possible:

- Supersonic flight speeds.
- Ability to land and take off from the nearest convenient airport, or private plane/helicopter connections.
- Priority take off and landing clearance when no other planes on approach/take off are late.
- Privacy to travel with my family in full as being in my own home.
- The comfort and amenities afforded at home within technological reason.
- Flight follows my schedule - I don't follow theirs.

If anyone is saying the above is not feasible - it is - except for the supersonic flight speeds that is.

Google offers the above for its executives. They have a deal with NASA to use NASA owned Moffett Field - across the road from their offices. SJC can be 30-45 minutes away in bad traffic. They run an ex-Qantas B767.

Haha, yes, thats the ultimate!
It is indeed possible, if you can afford a Gulfstream V G550 or similar, you got all that minus supersonic, but close to!

In the late 80's in europe there where a few semi-airlines who used 8 seater private jets for scheduled services, unfortunatly they did not last that long, but the idea is great of bringing private jet travel for mere mortals!

BTW, companies like Netjets offer a lower cost option for jetting around, but still a much higher cost compared to a F class ticket on a top airlines flagship...

[bmchris]

Haha, yes, thats the ultimate!
It is indeed possible, if you can afford a Gulfstream V G550 or similar, you got all that minus supersonic, but close to!

In the late 80's in europe there where a few semi-airlines who used 8 seater private jets for scheduled services, unfortunatly they did not last that long, but the idea is great of bringing private jet travel for mere mortals!

BTW, companies like Netjets offer a lower cost option for jetting around, but still a much higher cost compared to a F class ticket on a top airlines flagship...

There's also commercially available Luftansa Private Jet - http://www.lufthansa-private-jet.com/main.html. Or Charter flights. I'm sure if your party was all traveling in F, costs for private services would give you comparable benefits to what I have listed - so not unreasonable.

The change over point from commercial to private domestic is an income of about USD$10m per year from my experience.

[SkyDining]

There's also commercially available Luftansa Private Jet - http://www.lufthansa-private-jet.com/main.html. Or Charter flights. I'm sure if your party was all traveling in F, costs for these services would be comparable to what I have listed.

The change over point from commercial to private domestic is an income of about USD$10m per year from my experience.

Indeed, thats correct, depending on frequency and party, you might consider those services and be better off in the end for your company if time and productivity are essential.

I used to work for a similar charter company a few years back, and the variety of "charters" demands where actually the kickstart for me to rethink the F class concept for airlines!

Airlines also however do offer very attractive contracts on there line services for companies with a high frequency of travel.
The EK A345 service to Zurich comes to mind, where the company involved in the contract requested a (for back then) exclusive F class cabin.
But then we are back to square one I suppose...Contract or not, its up to the airline what you will receive as a service.

[bmchris]

First Class should be the ability to be yourself, as long as it does not inconvenience other passengers, is illegal, or goes against airline policy.

For example, if the AVOD system went on the brink, I didn't like it, then I quietly and deliberately kicked in the monitor screen, causing it to break.

The FA would then apologize for the AVOD system not working, and ask if there was anything they could do entertain me - like tell me some jokes, juggle, play poker etc. The airline would then quietly bill me for the damage caused, lost revenue etc., and I would understandably pay it.

The airline would be the "Sebel Townhouse of the air" - catering to the most specific of whims, for the most discerning - that could afford it. http://www.theage.com.au/national/fo...1102-5gb7.html

This is an extreme example. But the airline should be flexible enough to accomodate the most specific of needs - indeed, can a regimented SQ do this? We need to consider that folks of this calibre are used to much more than mere mortals (or which I am one). Flying commercial F to them, is like mere mortals flying Y. And when mere mortals have complaints about F experiences - you can imagine what those used to more, think of it.

[SkyDining]

First Class should be the ability to be yourself, as long as it does not inconvenience other passengers, is illegal, or goes against airline policy.

For example, if the AVOD system went on the brink, I didn't like it, then I quietly and deliberately kicked in the monitor screen, causing it to break.

The FA would then apologize for the AVOD system not working, and ask if there was anything they could do entertain me - like tell me some jokes, juggle, play poker etc. The airline would then quietly bill me for the damage caused, lost revenue etc., and I would understandably pay it.

The airline would be the "Sebel Townhouse of the air" - catering to the most specific of whims, for the most discerning - that could afford it. http://www.theage.com.au/national/fo...1102-5gb7.html

This is an extreme example. But the airline should be flexible enough to accomodate the most specific of needs - indeed, can a regimented SQ do this? We need to consider that folks of this calibre are used to much more than mere mortals (or which I am one). Flying commercial F to them, is like mere mortals flying Y. And when mere mortals have complaints about F experiences - you can imagine what those used to more, think of it.

Indeed, I get your point, in fact making the F class more tailor made instead of a regime applied by the airline is IMO the way to go.
The people of this calibre can't really be bothered to travel in commercial aviation most of the time exactly because of the reasons mentioned above.
But getting a little bit more of there world on a commercial airliner would be a huge step forward in the F experience I reckon.

[stargold]

First Class should be the ability to be yourself, as long as it does not inconvenience other passengers, is illegal, or goes against airline policy.

For example, if the AVOD system went on the brink, I didn't like it, then I quietly and deliberately kicked in the monitor screen, causing it to break.

The FA would then apologize for the AVOD system not working, and ask if there was anything they could do entertain me - like tell me some jokes, juggle, play poker etc. The airline would then quietly bill me for the damage caused, lost revenue etc., and I would understandably pay it.

What you describe sounds like someone who needs to fly a private jet. I would be pretty disgusted if it happened on a commercial service.

It doesn't matter what the airline is trying to provide - there are certain standards of behaviour that should be maintained when in public. Any attempt to override those for benefit of any passenger would be entirely unacceptable, regardless of how much money one has.

PS. Deliberately breaking the IFE screen is criminal damage, and therefore against the law.

[trekkie]

deleted

[bmchris]

What you describe sounds like someone who needs to fly a private jet. I would be pretty disgusted if it happened on a commercial service.

It doesn't matter what the airline is trying to provide - there are certain standards of behaviour that should be maintained when in public. Any attempt to override those for benefit of any passenger would be entirely unacceptable, regardless of how much money one has.

PS. Deliberately breaking the IFE screen is criminal damage, and therefore against the law.

OK - perhaps a bad example.

How about this - one FA for every first class passenger. With the latitude to do anything you wanted within reason. It may be running back to the news stand to get that magazine you wanted, helping you as an assistant while you worked on the plane, minding the kids for you so that you can get some rest, rerouting you if your plane is delayed, organizing your ground connections, arranging a birthday party etc. The point being - service that is not to a set of rules - but to a standard. I don't think they can do it.

As to the product - rather than saying you are allocated a seat, you are allocated a space. Within that space, they do everything they can to cater to your demands. Make the suite soundproof. Add its own bar and air conditioning unit so you can smoke. Bring in some exercise equipment if need be.

And what's this one size fits all pricing? Not even Rolls Royce and Bentley have this pricing model. You eat a salad, you pay less - you eat the steak - you pay more. A one size fits all price model is more akin to a $10 buffet or all inclusive cheap vacation package. Exclusivity should fit with a tailored offering, that has tailored pricing. 45 minutes prior to landing, you are presented with an itemized bill. This is where I see the future of elite travel.

[SkyDining]

Meal
- I have feedback on consistency on meal service to the company's VP customer service and a crew did personally highlight the garlic bread issue with the customer affairs manager.
- I think we all know that airline food will never be as good as ground food but there should be quality choice, ample portions and good quality ingredients used such as not reusing the lobster shells.
- I don't like the current meal chocies of local choices such as char siew mee as if the airline is demanding a huge premium price, it can certainly offer quality choice such as lobster without having to do a special order.
- Food served should also not be burnt, served at appropriate time.

Cabin crew
- As much as SQ has always been consistent in customer communciations down to what words can be used in certain conversations, recent interractions have foudn that management may have become too lax with cabin crew communications with customers. Ie, a local and a foreign customer should be treated equal.

Concerning the food, this is a bit my field (as the username suggests!), it is possible, but for a decent meal to appear in front of you, the cabin crew skills are very vital.
The difference between a top quality restaurants method of work and an aircraft cabin is not that much. If you go to a proper restaurant and order anything from a menu, chances are very high they where prepared before hand, just have to be plated last minute by a PROFESSIONAL, where in the cabin everything was pre-plated or most items where, prepared by crew.

Lets say a portion of goose liver (foie de gras), would you prefer a freshly cut portion from a block or a portion that was cut 12 hours ago and in air contact with salad or whatever on the plate seriously affecting the flavour.
This can go for any aircraft meal.

Don't ask the cabin crew to give that touch to make a meal outstanding, but why not bringing the professional on board to support them?

The fact that the crew makes a difference in guests is unacceptable, however a certain cabin crew that had looked after a guest before or knows this person might receive a bit more personal attention for obvious reasons and can be perceived for something else.
Thats why airline crew rotate on all sectors bacause from an airlines point of view these akward situations are better avoided, crew are still human afterall and are being told to interract with a guest, even so after they flew together a dozen times.

I am sure there are isolated cases of racism, but why would a crew member risk her/his career is not logical to me.

Again, I sense a lot of "personalised" ambitions in these sort of complaints.
A personal entourage of attentands for a guest could be a fresh idea for the tailor made service concept.

[SkyDining]

OK - perhaps a bad example.

How about this - one FA for every first class passenger. With the latitude to do anything you wanted within reason. It may be running back to the news stand to get that magazine you wanted, helping you as an assistant while you worked on the plane, minding the kids for you so that you can get some rest, rerouting you if your plane is delayed, organizing your ground connections, arranging a birthday party etc. The point being - service that is not to a set of rules - but to a standard. I don't think they can do it.

As to the product - rather than saying you are allocated a seat, you are allocated a space. Within that space, they do everything they can to cater to your demands. Make the suite soundproof. Add its own bar and air conditioning unit so you can smoke. Bring in some exercise equipment if need be.

And what's this one size fits all pricing? Not even Rolls Royce and Bentley have this pricing model. You eat a salad, you pay less - you eat the steak - you pay more. A one size fits all price model is more akin to a $10 buffet or all inclusive cheap vacation package. Exclusivity should fit with a tailored offering, that has tailored pricing. 45 minutes prior to landing, you are presented with an itemized bill. This is where I see the future of elite travel.

I am pretty sure bmchris meant with the fact that these type of customers are very much into a personalised service.

Indeed, crew/pax ratio is always a factor, a F cabin with 2 guests will always get better service then a full cabin.

Billing the tailor made service is a big issue, how are we going to do that?
Like a cruise ship with some sort of "credit card" where your bills appear maybe.They can even get you rewards as well on your consumptions or give promotions in a credit system, sounds the best solution to me in this sort of system. Its not like you are going to have to pay at the end of the flight.

[jhm]

Don't ask the cabin crew to give that touch to make a meal outstanding, but why not bringing the professional on board to support them?

That already happens - apparently - with certain Middle Eastern airlines, e.g. GF's Sky Chefs. However, at the end of the day, nothing in the air is going IMO (having tried myself longhaul F on SQ (including suites), BA, QF, UA, AA, NH etc and medium/shorthaul F on others like CX) to be able to compete with even a moderately good restaurant on the ground (by which I mean, for example, something like a 1-star Michelin place let alone more) with a full kitchen brigade with the proper tools, food made to order and ingredients sourced in a small enough quantity to go for the best. Out of the lot, NH came closest but still not there by a wide margin.

[SkyDining]

That already happens - apparently - with certain Middle Eastern airlines, e.g. GF's Sky Chefs. However, at the end of the day, nothing in the air is going IMO (having tried myself longhaul F on SQ (including suites), BA, QF, UA, AA, NH etc and medium/shorthaul F on others like CX) to be able to compete with even a moderately good restaurant on the ground (by which I mean, for example, something like a 1-star Michelin place let alone more) with a full kitchen brigade with the proper tools, food made to order and ingredients sourced in a small enough quantity to go for the best. Out of the lot, NH came closest but still not there by a wide margin.

True, most excellent restaurants don't even get a michelin star, let alone an airline.
But imagine the chemistry you would create of having a truely top quality airline having a professional on board and behind it to bring something unique. GF's Sky Chefs and EY's F&B managers are a good example of these programs, but in my very certain opinion they do not fully endeavour the potential! ;-)
(again I say a lot and nothing, do I?)

[jhm]

But imagine the chemistry you would create of having a truely top quality airline having a professional on board and behind it to bring something unique. GF's Sky Chefs and EY's F&B managers are a good example of these programs, but in my very certain opinion they do not fully endeavour the potential! ;-)
(again I say a lot and nothing, do I?)

Well, there aren't many other Middle Eastern airlines with world class ambitions and the pocketbook to match. For example, I see that there are adverts like this floating round.