The premium you'd pay for SQ, particulary in the front cabins

[SQflyergirl]

And they make money?

On a regular basis?

MH's past losses had nothing to do with pricing per se. Just plain old hand-in-the-till stuff.

Today, I'd say they were in much better shape. And yes, they're very good too.

[jhm]

Airlines are not charities

Neither are passengers. I think taipeiflyer is saying that for about the same service as SQ but at a substantial discouint, most sane people would take the cheaper option.

[taipeiflyer]

And they make money?

On a regular basis?

Airlines are not charities and while competition lead to low fares, something has to give eventually.

Look at what competition has done to US carriers

I don't want that kind of a/c or service when I fly...

All I'm saying is that in the battle between the forces of good vs cheap, I'm in the former camp

there is nothing that says the two have to be mutually exclusive... good and cost-affordable is still a possibility even in this day of cutbacks. and you would be foolish to overlook the cutbacks that the airline in the "former camp" has made over the past year.

[9V-SIA]

Hi!

Just back from another forum.

Check out what they have to say about our favorite airline.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...097690/#menu51

[taipeiflyer]

i'm confused about what you are exactly trying to point out 9V-SIA? just because SQ may be the most well-known example of superior in-flight service, does NOT mean they are the only example. furthermore, in reading thru all of the posts, i did not come across one negative comment about BR or MH, which was my point in my post. please clarify.

[9V-SIA]

I mean branding.

Of all the airlines that could be cited for superior service, they pick SQ.

SQ has been very successful in positioning themselves as a brand, when airlines are actually a commodity.

I buy into the whole package: newer planes, clean cabins, great service, edible food, great IFE, punctual flight schedules. And I pay for it.

I could drive a Korean car. But I drive a German one. Both will get me from A to B. But branding...and an involving drive. Premium paid.

But I don't travel as frequently as others on this forum. Once a month last year, all on SQ except CO once(Reality check on what's happening in US airline industry) No flight delays, IFE always works, seat controls too. ...touch wood.

I can't argue about the cost cutting that OPs have been complaining about on SQ, especially with regards to FFP benefits or unexciting lounges.

I would argue that the product, in the air, is still pretty good for me.

If the IFE is working, I'm like a borg.

[milehighj]

b) did you have their old J seats ?. Their current seat is not bad and around par for the current slopey seats most airlines offer. I prefer the SpaceBed but only because I know it so well now I can get reasonably comfortable in it. I wouldn't say the TG seat is too far behind. Of course SQ's new JCL flat seat is in a different league altogether.

In terms of seat alone, I would rate the TG slopey seat slightly higher than the SpaceBed... It's more easily adjustable than the SpaceBed.

I also did encounter both the "old J" and the "ancient J" seats... Seems that if one flies more than a few sectors on TG, this will be the case.

d) I've been quite lucky with timings on TG and can't remember ever having a major problem, although I have seen the reports of the recent delays.

2-out-of-6 and both out of BKK was quite unacceptable for me.

e) Big problem with TG. All airlines do it to some extent, and SQ have been at it this year. But this is TG's speciality.

Well I had one sector, thankfully a short BKK-SIN, which went from 772ER (slopey seat) to A300-600 (1980s biz class seat with no integrated footrest).... That's the kind of equipment change risk one runs with TG...

With the quality of the hospitality industry in the country they could be the best airline in the world if they made the effort. They suffer from as much political interference as MH but MH still manage to provide top notch on board service, right up at the top of the tree with SQ.

Absolutely agree!

[milehighj]

milehighj- you are using but one example. there are several airlines that are offering service that is nearly on par with SQ. For example, on lax-tpe routes, BR and MH are both substantially cheaper than SQ J, with service that is very similar to that of SQ. saying you get what you pay for does not hold up very well to any litmus test when you cite but one example.

Ah well maybe it's cos this thread was split off from another by our dear Mods... I didn't create the title of this thread...

My original post was specifically about the premium (or specifically, discount) I would pay for TG over SQ. Not the premium I'd pay for SQ over all other carriers, which as you correctly point out is quite illogical...

[taipeiflyer]

I mean branding.

Of all the airlines that could be cited for superior service, they pick SQ.

SQ has been very successful in positioning themselves as a brand, when airlines are actually a commodity.

I buy into the whole package: newer planes, clean cabins, great service, edible food, great IFE, punctual flight schedules. And I pay for it.

I could drive a Korean car. But I drive a German one. Both will get me from A to B. But branding...and an involving drive. Premium paid.

But I don't travel as frequently as others on this forum. Once a month last year, all on SQ except CO once(Reality check on what's happening in US airline industry) No flight delays, IFE always works, seat controls too. ...touch wood.

I can't argue about the cost cutting that OPs have been complaining about on SQ, especially with regards to FFP benefits or unexciting lounges.

I would argue that the product, in the air, is still pretty good for me.

If the IFE is working, I'm like a borg.

i think you are basically confirming what i have been saying. SQ is the most well-known example of superior in-flight service, which is what i had mentioned. the same way that a bmw is a well-known example of being the ultimate driving machine. but you could find cheaper alternatives both with regards to on the raod, and in the air, that would provide a very, very enjoyable experience. on the road- toyota and honda are both excellent examples, especially with respect to their luxury nameplates. in the air- well, i have already mentioned two examples. i am not in any way undermining the quality of SQ... the amount of money i have spent out of my own pocket on their metal is testament to my opinion of them, but i am also saying that just because they are the most expensive, doesn't mean that other airlines can not provide service with similar aplomb without digging as deep of a hole into your wallet or purse.

[jhm]

I've only been "fortunate" enough to fly TG J three times ever.

One was a redeye (CMB-BKK) on what was an ancient plane (A300 I have down ?) in what felt like cramped conditions more akin to Y.

The second flight (BKK-HKT) suffered an equipment change after takeoff (we had to turn round and make a rapid landing at BKK to be met by emergency vehicles).

The third flight (HKT-BKK) was mediocre. The food on all three flights was cr*p.

I can empathise with milehighj as far as TG J shorthaul (at least) is concerned ... but I'm told by those who know that longhaul is different ?

[milehighj]

I can empathise with milehighj as far as TG J shorthaul (at least) is concerned ... but I'm told by those who know that longhaul is different ?

My sectors were SIN-BKK-LHR-BKK-HKG-BKK-SIN. For BKK-LHR longhaul the very same issues exist - indifferent service, poor food, risk of delays and risk of equipment change to "old C". (Fortunately the latter did not occur on these sectors.)

Just to reiterate that I'm not complaining, per se. Just pointing out that this overall package is, to me, only worth a 40-50% discount to SQ, and I would probably do it again at that price.

[Kyo]

Very good point, taipeiflyer. The premium will definitely depend on the route, because the competing alternatives are different.

I suspect that on the routes where SQ and TG are two of the main options, TG will be whacked with a price discount because of their inconsistency in product and service ... and TG would do well to pay attention to the preferences of flyers like milehighj.




Now I really want to try BR and MH, the latter particularly because SQfg has been such an articulate advocate, and the former because of taipeiflyer.

I am also not who SQ would target - a tolerance of 10% would just about make or break the deal for me.

For me, flying SIN-BKK regularly is my primary route, so I shall use this as a basis for comparison (all taxes included, in SGD$):

Swiss (LX)
Y - $249 (100% mileage *A accrual) if you get the Special Economy fare (not the $239 Economy with 50% *A miles), some months have more availability than others. However if you get the Special Economy fare one way (normal price the other way), it will cost roughly mid-$300s.
J/C - $608 for both ways in Business. Mid-$400s ($458, last I had), for one-way in Special Biz fare + one-way Economy, and availability is almost every day of every month
F - $1250. I don't bother with this one since it's a 2.5 hour flight and Biz is sufficient. Might try upgrading one day, but given my low-tolerance threshold, and preference to upgrade on SQ, probably won't be exercising this option anytime soon.

Singapore (SQ)
Y - $640
J/C - $1376 for both ways in Business.
F - $2076... , no thanks

Thai (TG)
Y - $800-840, depends on the dates
J/C - $986. Refer to LX above, which is far superior. Unless you really, really enjoy that 30minute neck/shoulder massage at the Royal Spa in Bangkok so much that you would pay $378 more. Which would cost not more than $50 outside for a very good 30-minute session outside.
F - Not offered on this route

Just for fun (about as Premium as a Red label):

Tiger Air (TR)
Depending on how you book it, I've booked $478 to and fro before - 3 hours before the flight. I've also been successful getting away with $158 before. Generally will cost around $280-290 both ways.

Air Asia (AK)
Generally will cost around $180-200 both ways.


Finally, if you combine TR and AK one-way, and get lucky, it's possible to do it sometimes for $130.

In summary, LX Business (at least one-way, usually after shopping in Bangkok) is the best deal overall, especially since availability in Y is very limited in 2008 compared to 2007 (they must have realised too many people were doing $239 flights).

[kapitan]

Ok, surprising, SIN - LHR return on SQ Y is slightly cheaper then TG Y.... SQ on the A380 both ways...

SQ 318 17AUG Singapore(Changi) - London(Heathrow) 1245 1910 OK
SQ 317 23AUG London(Heathrow) - Singapore(Changi) 1155 0745+1 OK

Fare: SGD1850+TXS SGD502/PT-ADT

Type of travel : Economy Class // Min stay waived // Max stay one month
Restriction 01 : Strictly valid on the SQ flight only
Restriction 02 : Flight/date changes permitted subj to seat availability
Restriction 03 : No shown fee will be applies
Remarks : On confirmation, E ticket will be issued
Remarks : All fares & airport taxes are subject to changes with or without prior notice


TG 402 16AUG Singapore(Changi) - Bangkok(Suvarnabhumi Intl) 0740 0900 OK
TG 916 16AUG Bangkok(Suvarnabhumi Intl) - London(Heathrow) 1225 1830 OK

TG 911 23AUG London(Heathrow) - Bangkok(Suvarnabhumi Intl) 1230 0605+1 OK
TG 403 24AUG Bangkok(Suvarnabhumi Intl) - Singapore(Changi) 0800 1115 OK

Fare: SGD1355.00 + EST TXS SGD1048.00

Type of travel : Economy Class // Min stay waived // Max stay 3 months
Restriction 01 : Strictly valid on the TG flight only
Restriction 02 : Flight/date changes permitted subj to seat availability.
Restriction 03 : No shown fee will be applies
Remarks : On confirmation, E ticket will be issued
Remarks : All fares & airport taxes are subject to changes with or without prior notice
Remarks : With no refund value once ticket issued

I even got a quote for QF, which is also slightly more expensive then SQ...

QF 0009 16AUG Singapore(Changi) - London(Heathrow) 2305 0525+1 OK
QF 032 23AUG London(Heathrow) - Singapore(Changi) 1215 0800+1 OK
Fare: SGD1645.00 + EST TXS SGD766/PT-ADT

You will note that taxes to be paid for TG flight is most expensive, probably because of the transit in bangkok... also QF charges more tax then SQ??

[jjpb3]

Ok, surprising, SIN - LHR return on SQ Y is slightly cheaper then TG Y.... SQ on the A380 both ways...

Not to me. I've always found SQ Y prices on the LHR-SIN route very canny. They know how to keep them Y loads up (frustrating for late-ish bookings at Christmastime, though ).

[wsssaero]

SQ is not always the most expensive. I did checks on fares for a few airlines (SQ, CX, UA) to HKG in December (Y Class). Turns out that SQ is actually the cheapest. (comparing only the lowest fare quoted online at the respective airline websites).