Any chance of SQ Aust-US routes

[zvezda]

Indirect competition has a weak (but not zero) effect. Otherwise you could argue every airline competes, if you go far enough out of your way (SYD-SIN-LAX anyone?).

That's true in theory. In practice, it's true when airlines offer competitive fares in the particular market. Taking the example at hand, do SQ offer competitive SYD-LAX fares via SIN? If one must add together separate SYD-SIN and SIN-LAX fares (presumably on the same ticket), then SQ are really not competing in that market.

[Singapore_Air]

In May 2009, 12 passengers originated from Sydney and flew Singapore Airlines to Los Angeles on the nonstop service.

3 passengers originated from Sydney and flew to Los Angeles via Singapore (and Tokyo).

* Data may be inaccurate. Refers to round-trips.

[UMD]

That's true in theory. In practice, it's true when airlines offer competitive fares in the particular market. Taking the example at hand, do SQ offer competitive SYD-LAX fares via SIN? If one must add together separate SYD-SIN and SIN-LAX fares (presumably on the same ticket), then SQ are really not competing in that market.

I used to do this a lot when I lived in SYD and I could tell you SQ's fare to the US via SIN is at least 30 - 35% cheaper compared to QF's direct fares.

[Kiwi]

Yes SQ does compete on Oz->USA route, but not on NZ->USA route. However the competing is done quietly - not well known how much you can save.

Similarly AA competes with through fares Oz-(QF)->Japan-(AA)->USA, which is also not well known.

[haf]

I did a trans-pacific trip (on a trans-pacific ticket fare) in Jan 2007 that went like this:

MEL-SYD-LAX-SEA-SFO-HKG-SIN-MEL

On star alliance (business class) - that was $7,500 AUD approx at the time

On one world (economy class) - that was $8,100 AUD approx. more expensive to fly economy.

Granted, I only did the SQ planes for HKG-SIN-MEL (but I did get to sit on the new 77W seats back then) and the rest of the flights were upper deck 747 on United (and we all know how their business class compares).

Still, Qantas wanted more money for the same route.

[zvezda]

I only did the SQ planes for HKG-SIN-MEL....

It's a shame SQ SFO-HKG didn't work for you. I quite like that flight.

If I were flying between the US and OZ, I would look at SQ fares and schedules. I always enjoy spending a day (or more) in Singapore. If the schedule worked for me and the fares were reasonable, I would choose SQ.

[Kiwi]

I did a trans-pacific trip (on a trans-pacific ticket fare) in Jan 2007 that went like this:

MEL-SYD-LAX-SEA-SFO-HKG-SIN-MEL

On star alliance (business class) - that was $7,500 AUD approx at the time

On one world (economy class) - that was $8,100 AUD approx. more expensive to fly economy.

Granted, I only did the SQ planes for HKG-SIN-MEL (but I did get to sit on the new 77W seats back then) and the rest of the flights were upper deck 747 on United (and we all know how their business class compares).

Still, Qantas wanted more money for the same route.

That looks like a circle pacific fare. They are now much more expensive on both OW & *A.

[haf]

AH! Thanks for the correction on the right term. Is that particular fare booked via the airlines websites or is it a special arrangement? Our company travel agent originally booked this fare from Australia when I was living there.

Sorry, another correction, don't mean to stray us off topic. That should have said Jan 2008 I did that trip!

[Kiwi]

Circle pacific is an alliance product and thus can be bought through any participating alliance airlines, or through travel agents. At the moment cannot be bought online.

Both *A and OW have them, with differing rules. Now DL flies between LAX and SYD SkyTeam might also add a circle pacific product?

[flymeroundthemoon]

Off Topic?

This thread seems to be getting off topic? The original question and the original intent was to question IF SQ had any more chance of being granted the necessary freedom rights to fly via OZ to CA.

I would have thought the answer to this question is "When H*ll freezes over"?! Why give away a nice little duopoly when you don't have to? Who ever said that Governments are there to serve the best interests of its people? :-)

What would really stir things up would be an A/C with the range to fly OZ-Europe profitably nonstop, without the need for an Asian detour?

[huaiwei]

What would really stir things up would be an A/C with the range to fly OZ-Europe profitably nonstop, without the need for an Asian detour?

Wouldn't a discussion on non-stop OZ-Europe flights be just as OT, unless you can establish some kind of relationship with the non-stop transpacific ones?

[soak01]

I think the via Asia option (i.e. SQ, CX etc) is particularly attractive to the non SYD/MEL/BNE markets who have to endure a domestic transfer plus the additional cost before you even leave the country.

I am travelling to the US and Canada in November and ended up booking on CX before the competition on the SYD/LAX route really heated up. I was hoping to book SQ, but the loss of Y+ on the non-stop and the withdrawl from YVR forced me to CX as being the only carrier which allowed me to fly direct out of ADL to LAX and to return direct from YVR (albeit via HKG but with minimal transit times).

My other option was to use NZ, but the price was significantly more plus extended time in transit in AKL and a lack of daily service from YVR. So in the end I am booked:

ADL/HKG/LAX // YVR/HKG/ADL

I recently checked prices to compare and yes, it is now marginally cheaper if I was to fly QF or VA, but the hassle of having to fly from YVR and transiting LAX and then either SYD, MEL or BNE on arriving back in Australia is not appealing.

By the way, the fare I got through a travel agent was actually cheaper than the pricing direct from CX. Both of which were also cheaper than the CX website.

[flymeroundthemoon]

Wouldn't a discussion on non-stop OZ-Europe flights be just as OT, unless you can establish some kind of relationship with the non-stop transpacific ones?

My apologies, yes you are quite correct and I should have expanded my thinking. My premise was that, should nonstop flights from OZ to Europe become feasible, then SQ would have an even less chance than "When H*ll freezes over" of getting those OZ-CA freedoms because QF/EU will have a new monopoly on these routes without any need for transit stops in Asia, so the negotiating position of SQ regarding tradeoffs for additional SIN stopover rights for QF/EU against new trans-Pacific rights for SQ would be gone.

Sorry for not being clearer in my earlier post and now bringing this right back on topic

[flymeroundthemoon]

In May 2009, 12 passengers originated from Sydney and flew Singapore Airlines to Los Angeles on the nonstop service.

3 passengers originated from Sydney and flew to Los Angeles via Singapore (and Tokyo).

* Data may be inaccurate. Refers to round-trips.

Dear Your Omnipotence,

As you will be well aware, such statements are normally accompanied by references to the source of such data. So please clarify where such data originates as you post?

[Chris]

That looks like a circle pacific fare. They are now much more expensive on both OW & *A.

The *A looks like a CP fare from 07, but the OW looks just like a published fare, as both OW and *A's CPs were pretty close pricing wise.

As for SQ from Australia to the US, they really arent that sharp price wise and it takes twice as long!