SQ reinstating FRA-JFK, HKG-SFO in Nov

[SQ forever]

Question - While what you're saying is true for the SFO routes, then why is the LAX route still tagged with NRT? Easily they can also make it a nonstop route, too and also have a similar option like SFO, such that it also arrives in the evening in SIN with a reasonable connection time for Indian routes. The current LAX routes for some Indian destinations folks have to wait a long time.

SFO-India traffic is tons ahead of LAX-India, esp. south india and NRT-LAX is working unlike HKG-SFO; CX noon flights are 2 weekly still.

& would love for SQ to keep their 350-LR on SQ34-33; this creates a very convienient evening departure bank for SFO-SouthIndia connections

[ell3]

I think your question about using the 5th freedom routes is more to do with demand vs equipment availability.
Pre-covid SFO used to have the demand for 3x daily. But they lacked available frames to do 3x direct. Therefore the use of the stopover in HKG for the 77Ws to do the rotation for the 3rd flight.

But today UA is doing 2x SFO direct, that sort of takes away some demand from SQ. Plus SIN-HK demand seems weak (they can’t even sustain 6 flights now when it used to be 7 pre-covid). So no 3rd flight to SFO from SIN.

likewise for LAX, it’s likely the demand for SIN-LAX is still there, just that they lack the frames to do it 3x direct from SIN.

[SQfanatic]

With the Crew & equipment shortfalls, the fifth-freedom flights will stay on the back-burner for longer & HKG-SFO is not the market it used to be, with CX paring it to 9 weekly now from 21 in 2019. the 779 will limit to the SYD-SIN-LHR runs for quite a while.

That said, the nonstops to SFO are doing really well, SQ would rather a third nonstop than a SIN-HKG-SFO.

Totally agree; I really wish this happens, this flight connects very well to a host of destinations from SIN in the morning and needs a larger Y cabin. Premium economy is small & not worth buying or upgrading at certain times. A third nonstop late afternoon from SIN and a midnight dep. from SFO on a 359ULR looks best.

That's true but you can't really rule out the possibility of still having a 779 either do SIN-SFO-SIN nonstop (if the range allows) or as time goes on and the number of 779's increase, they could bring the 5th freedom route back via HKG.

My concern is at this time, they took the 359 ULR out of service for now and subbed SQ34/33 with the 3-class A350. However, in January they will go back to the ULR. The upside is the convenience time-wise, because my mom & I took SQ33 in 2022 (with a 14.5 hour long layover in SIN) and in September both my parents are taking SQ33 that departs at 10PM and actually connecting to SQ524 (also MH A350) after a 3 hour halt, so that actually does good. At least that gives an ability to reach India in the daytime with a short halt and it's a good departure if you want to complete a proper full working day and leave to the airport (Reference a couple of trips where I had to take EK around 3:45PM or 4:45PM and as a remote worker had to adjust my working hours to complete a full day). This is good since SQ really brought a lot of the focus to increase Indian flights, especially the most popular routes like BOM, BLR, HYD and MAA. They should also consider the same for other routes (i.e COK, TRV, CCU, AMD) kind of like how EK has multiple Indian flight time options so that folks don't have to suffer waiting a full day in SIN unneccessarily.

The downside to that is after January, if you are looking for fares to go to MAA on this carrier, you have to take SQ31 or pay more to take SQ33 and it's Premium Economy. For example, I am planning to go in May next year for a week to MAA for my birthday and compared to September, the fares are fine but SQ33 only sells Premium Economy, not regular at all. They could do away and limit the ULR's to New York alone and possibly decide on a new route (i.e. Chicago, Dallas for example).

The only frames SQ uses on ultra long haul routes as 3-class are 12 frames, SMV-SJH (soon SJI). They honestly have enough frames to permanently keep SQ34/33 and possibly put a third daily SFO flight.

Question - While what you're saying is true for the SFO routes, then why is the LAX route still tagged with NRT? Easily they can also make it a nonstop route, too and also have a similar option like SFO, such that it also arrives in the evening in SIN with a reasonable connection time for Indian routes. The current LAX routes for some Indian destinations folks have to wait a long time.

[SQ forever]

With the Crew & equipment shortfalls, the fifth-freedom flights will stay on the back-burner for longer & HKG-SFO is not the market it used to be, with CX paring it to 9 weekly now from 21 in 2019. the 779 will limit to the SYD-SIN-LHR runs for quite a while.

That said, the nonstops to SFO are doing really well, SQ would rather a third nonstop than a SIN-HKG-SFO.

Yet at the same time, I wonder if SQ may never bring it back if their nonstop SIN-SFO flights are doing good and perhaps, keep both daily 3-class A350's on this route.

Totally agree; I really wish this happens, this flight connects very well to a host of destinations from SIN in the morning and needs a larger Y cabin. Premium economy is small & not worth buying or upgrading at certain times. A third nonstop late afternoon from SIN and a midnight dep. from SFO on a 359ULR looks best.

[SQfanatic]

Crews, plane, demand.

Crews need around 8 days to fly SQ1/2 to and fro.
SQ also does not have enough 777 or A350 to deploy on this rotation

further UA is doing 2 daily HKG-SFO right.

SQ is getting their Boeing 777-9 sometime next year (2025). Based on how many 779 they are receiving, the more they get, is it possible they will be able to start that fifth freedom route with that aircraft rather than the 77W? Besides, their 77W are at least 10 years old (except some of the newer ones).

The other problem is the timings. SIN-SFO has 2 flights (doesn't matter the aircraft type or configuration of it) - 9:25AM and 8PM. They can't really squeeze the old SQ2 time so tight that it clashes already with a nonstop flight. Instead they have to do one of two things:

1) Use the same SQ7/8 numbers like they did back in 2021. In terms of flight times, they ought to opt for an afternoon departure (i.e. SQ894 that can be replaced with SQ8/7, then they may have to time HKG-SIN such that it leaves at 10PM and arrives past 1AM, kind of like SQ11).

2) They need to find fitting flight times that are apart from the current SIN-SFO rotation.

Moreover, this is where it becomes difficult in terms of slots. Here's what I know:

UA has 2 HKG-SFO flights - 11AM and 10PM (I think even before covid, SQ had a flight at 11:30PM back to SFO)
CX has 3 HKG-SFO flights (not daily for any) - 1AM, 1:30PM, 8PM - SQ8 actually mimicked the CX's 1:30PM flight.

Yet at the same time, I wonder if SQ may never bring it back if their nonstop SIN-SFO flights are doing good and perhaps, keep both daily 3-class A350's on this route.

[sbs2716g]

Do we know why, even now, SQ1/2 isn't back yet? Still crew capacity constraints?

Crews, plane, demand.

Crews need around 8 days to fly SQ1/2 to and fro.
SQ also does not have enough 777 or A350 to deploy on this rotation

further UA is doing 2 daily HKG-SFO right.

[shikhargpt]

Do we know why, even now, SQ1/2 isn't back yet? Still crew capacity constraints?

[SQfanatic]

Although there hasn’t been updates here since the chance of the resumption of the fifth freedom route to San Francisco via Hong Kong hasn’t returned yet, thought I’d mention the following.

SQ34/33 will be deployed with the 3-class A350 (SMV-SJ*) on the evening flight from 1MAY, just like SQ32/31 currently have. It at least gives Y class travelers a choice on which flight suits them.

The last time SQ34/33 were regularly operated with the long haul 3-class A350 was in December 2022.

Consequently the nonstop LAX flight (one of them) will be using the ULR variant. Sounds like a switch

[SQfanatic]

The last A380 doing SQ26 is being operated by 9V-SKM on 15May. This will mark the end of the A380 on US routes. Instead, it'll either be operated by an A350 or 77W.

From Tuesday, 16May, according to iCargo, SQ26 is scheduled to be operated by 9V-SWP. The last time (except for a few one-off's last Summer) that JFK was served with the 77W instead of in 2013 was from Nov 2021 to Mar 2022, in parallel to when SQ reinstated their SIN-HKG-SFO flights (SQ8/7).

From the HKG-SFO standpoint, it looks like there is no sign of it being reinstated anytime soon. We are planning to travel in October for my cousin's wedding (very likely) and one of the first things my mom brings up is the night flight....And the current night flight is SQ33 that only has Premium Economy and it's a problem for my mom as she is inflexible about taking days off. Plus we were curiously looking at TRV by TR and it's very costly. SQ is nowhere like it used to be before and the price for every other airline differs from one day to the next and some frequencies to BLR are not so good.The second problem when they bring this up is that I have to educate her that the night flight isn't what it used to be unless you go on some days, you'll be wasting a long layover in SIN or any other airport with this option if going to India. I guess this is one of the reasons she wishes it came back.

Instead, sticking with EK from both a price and product perspective (they treat all their routes equally with at least a decent product, just the 16 hour flight is way too long IMO). There is so much of capping in destinations that it really limits the options. Plus neither of us want to do AI no matter the convenience.

[SQfanatic]

How about trying the dreaded infamous SFO-BLR nonstop / have some pretty decent reviews of the JAL SFO-NRT-BLR flight too: people who took JAL vouch not to fly any other !

Not after what my mom went thru on AI in 2016 nor any of my friends in recent times.

JL is definitely on my list, BUT it tends to be way more pricier but not a bad idea for a change if at all. Nothing is set in stone, just trying to lay out some scenarios because nothing is set in stone, just yet. One day I will fly JL, just not yet. LH is another consideration, though they operate 747's. but breaking it splits the flight time and layover quite well. The price is an issue.

[SQ forever]

How about trying the dreaded infamous SFO-BLR nonstop / have some pretty decent reviews of the JAL SFO-NRT-BLR flight too: people who took JAL vouch not to fly any other !

[SQfanatic]

I would also prefer to get SQ1/2 back.

I have been flying SQ33/34 to Singapore and back.

Even though I do fly business and usually can get 10A or 11F bulkhead seat.

SQ33 at 16+ hour is still too much. The flight usually gets in before 5AM. By the time I get to hotel it’s usually 6:30am or so too early to check in. So I have to wander around for couple hours.

Arriving close to noon is better.

I agree, whatever class you pick, 16 hours is too much and I really had my fair share of this too, if I fly alone, either it would be Premium Economy or pick another carrier if the price difference is not significant.

SQ7/8 is also okay, too. I know when that operated, it got to SIN around midnight and was still a day flight out of SFO. I didn't even like taking a 16 hour flight nonstop to SIN and neither does my mom (now she has recently had some surgery, so she really wants to avoid flights longer than 13-14 hours for many reasons). We are probably going to fly again this Summer for a relative's wedding (dates TBD, it may be June or July), so I'm hoping that SQ can reinstate that route or pick a different 5th freedom route to SFO if demand warrants.


At this point, Hong Kong has removed restrictions, CX is ramping up their SFO service (not daily on any of their 3 flights yet, but it could be) on their 77W (mostly without First Class), UA has made a comeback to HKG on their 77W (by later this month, it should increase to twice daily on the 77W). There is no quarantine or issues with the pre-departure tests.

Any idea what's stopping SQ from reinstating SIN-HKG-SFO-HKG-SIN? Is it the competition from UA and CX? Crew issues, like whatever I mentioned from my post; just because they told me doesn't always mean it could be true. Aircraft shortage perhaps (SWM, SWN, SWJ, SWK)?

[krispykreme]

I would also prefer to get SQ1/2 back.

I have been flying SQ33/34 to Singapore and back.

Even though I do fly business and usually can get 10A or 11F bulkhead seat.

SQ33 at 16+ hour is still too much. The flight usually gets in before 5AM. By the time I get to hotel it’s usually 6:30am or so too early to check in. So I have to wander around for couple hours.

Arriving close to noon is better.

[SQfanatic]

I flew SQ33 a few weeks ago and came back this past Monday on SQ32 and I can tell you a few things. Literally, despite the cramped and uncomfortable aisles and seats on the A350, SQ32 is generally time-saving compared to the same departure of the flight via ICN, HKG, or even NRT. Basically it saves you 3-4 hours compared to the 1-stop. The one problem is it's longer because of where Singapore is situated in the world.

SQ33 did help me to mimick my sleep cycle at home (i.e. 12AM-7AM Pacific Time) as well as my breakfast time (9AM Standard time) and coffee time (7AM) and even brushed my teeth before then. SQ32 on the other hand did allow me to get good incremental 3 hours of sleep and the A350 in its own way reduces its jetlag (while going my bird was a 1 year old 9V-SJE, coming back a 3 year old bird 9V-SMV).

If I'm being completely honest, I do prefer if the 1-stop flfth freedom route to SFO on the 77W really comes back as those seats (2013 Y) were much more comfortable and roomier (just like the Emirates A380) and even despite those seats being 10 years old, to me it still looks like they're fairly new and comply in today's standards compared to say, 2006 Y class seats (nowhere to be found anymore these days). Same with my mom, she did not enjoy the A350 cabin and the cramped seats and aisles at all.

I also spoke to a male crew while getting a snack on SQ33 and they said well obviously HKG is closed which is why it got canceled and from what I know, so far there doesn't seem to be plans for the HKG-SFO route to even come back maybe due to the fact that it's much easier on the crews (ex-SIN and ex-SFO) on a rotational roster basis. This is quite sad, and honestly, if I have to fly SQ again, I would try spending a little more $ on Premium Economy instead. Otherwise, if at all possible doesn't hurt to explore other airlines in terms of breaking the flights like 9-9, 10-8, etc.

Could it be possible that SQ34/33 be going daily at some point with 3-class A350's (with Y class) once more A350 aircraft come online?

[SQfanatic]

I stumbled on an article from SF Gate that sometime in March, UA is planning to deploy double daily 77W's from SFO-HKG. Originally, before the pandemic, they used to deploy 772's on this route, meaning no plane would overnight in HKG for better fleet utilization. From a Star Alliance partner, it is certainly a major capacity increase.

CX is also gradually beginning to bring back triple daily 77W's slowly (note that there are 3 flights with choices, but none of them are daily, as of yet, maybe some are once or a few times a week, but that can change depending on how the network gets rebuilt).

My guess is even if SQ does bring back, not 100% sure if it will be with a 77W, maybe with 5 77W's already deployed, maybe an A350, or they may not bring it back if the nonstop SIN-SFO-SIN is profitable enough and less complication with the crews.