London change to 2 A380's/day

[EWR]

Not a surprise with the loads and cancellations recently. They would be better off going back to three a day.

SQ308 has been cancelled today. Is there any reason for the "cancellations recently"?

[pungpui]

But with just one daily flight against an hourly shuttle how much of the corporate business are they going to get ?. As kt74 points out, there are some heavy corporate discounts given out on the route due to the competition that is already there.

EK does just 1 daily A380 flight between a number of Australian capital cities and a number of New Zealand cities, which competes against the large number of Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Air New Zealand, and a number of other airlines. I know that that doesnt compare to the traffic of LHR-NYC but the frequencies do compare. Similar questions were asked on profitability, and I believe it was the fact that flying the routes were less loss-making for EK due to the high 'parking' fees at Australian airports and the freight revenue alone make it sensible to fly the routes even with very low loads.

[milehighj]

EK does just 1 daily A380 flight between a number of Australian capital cities and a number of New Zealand cities, which competes against the large number of Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Air New Zealand, and a number of other airlines. I know that that doesnt compare to the traffic of LHR-NYC but the frequencies do compare. Similar questions were asked on profitability, and I believe it was the fact that flying the routes were less loss-making for EK due to the high 'parking' fees at Australian airports and the freight revenue alone make it sensible to fly the routes even with very low loads.

You cannot possibly compare EK & SQ.

The former is investing (perhaps overaggressively?) in building brand, market share, and opening new markets.

The latter is playing defense on its cash-cow routes, and network/fleet expansion/consolidation strategy is tied to taking over successful regional routes from MI, and offloading low-yielding ones (and unsaleable airframes) to MI & Scoot...

[SMK77]

You're kidding, aren't you? Achieved fares LHR-JFK are significantly lower than published fares, as the vast majority of business travellers are on corporate deals.

And corporate discounts are higher when the published fares are higher? Where did you go to school? Corporate discounts apply to FRA-JFK the same way they apply to LHR-JFK. It's a percentage of the total fare.

[SQ228]

EK does just 1 daily A380 flight between a number of Australian capital cities and a number of New Zealand cities, which competes against the large number of Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Air New Zealand, and a number of other airlines. I know that that doesnt compare to the traffic of LHR-NYC but the frequencies do compare. Similar questions were asked on profitability, and I believe it was the fact that flying the routes were less loss-making for EK due to the high 'parking' fees at Australian airports and the freight revenue alone make it sensible to fly the routes even with very low loads.

EK would want to be making a profit on some of these routes given the prices they charge! The daily A380 flight to/from MEL adds around 15-20% onto the cost of a return fare to Europe. To price match with other airlines, such as SQ, you have to fly via SIN which adds another gate lounge wait, taxi and boarding and prevents any possibility of a decent sleep with all sectors reduced to 7-8 hours each.

They are also well known for arrival times at the most inhospitable hours. For some years they had a 0230 arrival into MEL. Who wants to get home or check-in at a hotel at 4 am? They now arrive at 0105- not much of an improvement. Unlike SIN, MEL isn't really a transfer hub.

[kt74]

And corporate discounts are higher when the published fares are higher? Where did you go to school? Corporate discounts apply to FRA-JFK the same way they apply to LHR-JFK. It's a percentage of the total fare.

Corporate discounts relate to the volume of traffic that the client has on a route, and therefore the rate the client can negotiate. They have little to do with published fares or distances travelled. We are one of BA's top 10 global customers (and probably one of VS's top 10 too), and normally have a few people on every LHR-JFK flight. So while my company gets the standard corporate discount on FRA-JFK, we have a special rate with BA and VS on LHR-JFK which is *significantly* lower than the published fare, with added benefit of full flexibility on the lowest fare. Plus the fact that if I miss the BA flight back from JFK, there will probably be one 30 minutes later.

We have no corporate discount with SQ, and thus do not permit anyone to fly with them (even to SIN, and even if they are willing to pay full fare), as it would also dilute the global volume of business, and therefore the rebate, that we get from BA. We only ever negotiated a deal with VS because they flew to places that BA did not (e.g. PVG for many years), and because they discounted even more heavily than BA to get it

Good luck to SQ getting UK-based corporate customers out of LHR!!!

[dj_jay_smith]

Is there really any point though ?. BA/AA basically have an hourly shuttle service between LHR and JFK. Add numerous daily VS flights, plus the BA, VS and UA/CO flight to EWR as well as the DL (I know, I know...) LHR-JFK flights and you'd have to think there are better places to use the aircraft.

It might have made a bit of sense a few years back when SQ were looked on as being up on some sort of pedestal with all other airlines gazing up in admiration. But those days have long gone I'm afraid, there is not much of a gap these days and those that have caught up generally have wesbites that work.

You have to remember that LON-NYC generates one of the most traffic out of any international route, and certainly the most intercontinal.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2...ger_air_routes) shows this generate 3.6 million passengers a year. And I heard that the yields in C & F class are very good. SQ only needs a few of them to fill its plane!

[kevin-sg]

SQ308 has been cancelled today. Is there any reason for the "cancellations recently"?

This is a scheduled cancellation for Apr/May 2013.
See here ---> http://airlineroute.net/2013/03/07/sq-380-apr13/

[SMK77]

Corporate discounts relate to the volume of traffic that the client has on a route

You love to stick to you theory, don't you? Corporate discounts are NOT based on the volume of ONE ROUTE. Corporate discounts are based on total travel spend on all routes. It doesn't matter whether I am using my SQ corporate discount on a high yield or low yield route: the discount (in %) stays the same.

Hence, SQ has an interest in operating high yield routes (LHR-JFK) over low yield routes (FRA-JFK) notwithstanding the difficulties to get a new route started.

[bent]

anyway, a source tells me that LHR will getting the first 2 new 77Ws when they arrive in around August. So new seats and IFE for those on the LHR 77W routes!

[MAN Flyer]

EK does just 1 daily A380 flight between a number of Australian capital cities and a number of New Zealand cities, which competes against the large number of Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia, Air New Zealand, and a number of other airlines. I know that that doesnt compare to the traffic of LHR-NYC but the frequencies do compare. Similar questions were asked on profitability, and I believe it was the fact that flying the routes were less loss-making for EK due to the high 'parking' fees at Australian airports and the freight revenue alone make it sensible to fly the routes even with very low loads.

That's a silly comparison, those flights are only operated as the aircraft would otherwise be gathering dust on the tarmac in SYD etc, hence the accusation of 'capacity dumping' by QF and NZ for the last decade.

You have to remember that LON-NYC generates one of the most traffic out of any international route, and certainly the most intercontinal.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2...ger_air_routes) shows this generate 3.6 million passengers a year. And I heard that the yields in C & F class are very good. SQ only needs a few of them to fill its plane!

Oh well, sure they'll be fine then...

Delta plans a shuttle service between New York's JFK T4 and London Heathrow Terminal 3, the airline's CEO revealed today.

Richard Anderson said: "Once we have gained the requisite approvals from the EU, Britain and the US our intention is to operate a joint Delta / Virgin shuttle from Terminal 4 into London Heathrow T3."

"[At the JFK end] that means we can use both lounges - the new SkyClub and the Clubhouse. If you look at the passenger survey data, the number one rated business product in the US to Europe market is Virgin Atlantic and number two is Delta, so they will join together to offer the very best service to the business traveller between JFK and London Heathrow."

Under the proposed joint venture, Delta and Virgin Atlantic would coordinate schedules, network planning, pricing and sales between North America and the UK.

The two carriers would operate a total of 31 daily round trip flights between the UK and North America, 23 of which would operate at London Heathrow. The airlines also plan to implement codesharing, reciprocal frequent flier benefits and shared lounge access.

The carriers are also seeking antitrust immunity for five-way coordination on UK-US traffic flows so that Delta can continue to effectively operate its existing joint venture with European airlines Air France, KLM and Alitalia, alongside this proposed agreement with Virgin. For more details, click here.

Anderson said that the newly extended T4 Terminal will have a 24,000 square foot lounge, and intended to provide a meal service for evening flights in the SkyClub, though he admitted that the airline is still working with different restaurateurs and it would not immediately be available.

Of course, one fact not mentioned in all this is that SQ were a very long way down the road to starting a transatlantic route from London a few years ago, but it wasn't from LHR.....

[Savage25]

You love to stick to you theory, don't you? Corporate discounts are NOT based on the volume of ONE ROUTE. Corporate discounts are based on total travel spend on all routes. It doesn't matter whether I am using my SQ corporate discount on a high yield or low yield route: the discount (in %) stays the same.

Hence, SQ has an interest in operating high yield routes (LHR-JFK) over low yield routes (FRA-JFK) notwithstanding the difficulties to get a new route started.

kt74 is right in this case, so I'd say you're the one sticking to your theory. My previous employer in London used to be one of BA's top customers and we had redonkulous corporate fares on BA for LHR/LCY-JFK, a much higher discount than the corporate discounts on other routes. Hell, they pretty much launched LCY-JFK on the guarantee that they'd get X seats a year from my previous employer.

The oil industry has higher discounts on corporate fares between IAH, DME and AUH.

The motor industry has higher discounts on corporate fares between NRT, DTW and MUC.

The discount does not always stay the same. Economics 101, yeah?

[viraj735]

Thanks for the overview of how corporate discounts work, much appreciated.

[SMK77]

kt74Hell, they pretty much launched LCY-JFK on the guarantee that they'd get X seats a year from my previous employer.

That's pretty common in the industry and I believe BMW and SQ had a similar tie-up when MUC-SIN was launched.

Corporate discounts are in general based on volume and not on routes and that's the same for BA, SQ and any other airline.

[kt74]

Corporate discounts are in general based on volume and not on routes and that's the same for BA, SQ and any other airline.

Oh dear, you had better tell my corporate travel agent that all their prices are completely wrong. This is the discount they are currently quoting me off the published fully flexible BA business class price for a sample of destinations:

JFK 54%, IAD 54%, ORD 47%
BOS 36%, MIA 33%, MCO 32%
HKG 38%, SIN 20% (but still over £500 cheaper than our SQ corporate deal...)

Alternatively, we can fly business class on DL to JFK for slightly less than premium economy on BA or VS (our junior staff are only allowed to travel PE, unless they can find a cheaper J fare)

You tell me whether SQ can compete on LHR-NYC with one flight a day, and without heavy discounting?