Which FFP for me? Master Discussion

[KeithMEL]

You don't actually need to accrue any miles to KF, just allow them to 'track' your PPS Value from your flying on SQ. All your miles go to your other FFP, and they'd also count towards status on the other FFP.

It's been a long time since I've actually accrued miles on *A in any serious fashion so unfortunately any knowledge I have of the various programs is at least a year out of date, and any comparison I make of the *A FFPs is mostly academic.

No complaints about LH SEN status, got seats beside me blocked in economy (flights weren't full obviously), SEN line is v efficient (especially the one in Switzerland), get bday cards from both LH SYD and their German office, and once I got invited to a function they had in MEL.

My only complaint about M+M earn/burn wise is their inflexibility with redemption routings as I've mentioned in post 2 of this thread. But as you're based in a large *A hub this won't be much of a problem for you.

BMI dc is obviously currently the best with earn/burn and it's certainly been a joy to be able to redeem so many good value awards, though dealing with Pune of late has been frustrating to say the least. However I wouldn't recommend them to anyone starting out due to the inherent uncertainties involved with the LH takeover.

You might also wish to check out TK Miles & Smiles. It's meant to be good for status, even more so if you live outside of Turkey. I've not looked at the earn/burn though.

For anything else I'd have to defer to the real *A experts.

[emperorsr]

You don't actually need to accrue any miles to KF, just allow them to 'track' your PPS Value from your flying on SQ. All your miles go to your other FFP, and they'd also count towards status on the other FFP.

No complaints about LH SEN status, got seats beside me blocked in economy (flights weren't full obviously), SEN line is v efficient (especially the one in Switzerland), get bday cards from both LH SYD and their German office, and once I got invited to a function they had in MEL.

My only complaint about M+M earn/burn wise is their inflexibility with redemption routings as I've mentioned in post 2 of this thread. But as you're based in a large *A hub this won't be much of a problem for you.

BMI dc is obviously currently the best with earn/burn and it's certainly been a joy to be able to redeem so many good value awards, though dealing with Pune of late has been frustrating to say the least. However I wouldn't recommend them to anyone starting out due to the inherent uncertainties involved with the LH takeover.

You might also wish to check out TK Miles & Smiles. It's meant to be good for status, even more so if you live outside of Turkey. I've not looked at the earn/burn though.

For anything else I'd have to defer to the real *A experts.

Hiya

Yeah I did look into the double dipping thing so I am quite happy with that, even though this PPS devaluation thing is quite something. I have brought up the issue of miscalculations of PPSV on RTW fares and they found a nice solution for me.

I am starting to veer towards M&M, esp after reading about your perks! ( I do love birthday cards and free food! haa) And frankly you gotta give it to the Germans for efficiency. Their burn chart from SIN is so similar to SQ. In fact if not for SQ's 15% online discount, ULH awards with LH is cheaper by a few thousand miles.

I did research TK, and looked at the burn chart. For a business class RT flight SIN - USA, they are 20,000 miles more than LH. The qualification and re-qualification is amazing though on TK. From the little I have read on their customer service etc though, it is a nightmare.

Thanks very much though for saying you would not recommend BD right now. I think that is what I needed. So many say just stick to it and get transfered across when it is time. But you are right that there are so many uncertainties.

Thanks again Keith, much appreciated...

[lee_apromise]

Don't really like that flights taken during the the free bonus period is not taken as status miles. Did I misunderstand this?

You understood perfectly. They will give you a 50% discount (mileage upgrade) voucher for upgrade (Y to C, C to F) if you are hit the diamond or 2 vouchers for diamond plus. Not a bad thing really.

[Nick C]

Is anyone on AC aeroplan? 35000 miles for *G status seems good.

[leo]

I'm lost...

I need some expert advice on my choice of FFP for next year. I'm currently on KFES will be hitting EG by December. My dilemma - I'm thinking of moving over to M&M, as I feel kinda short changed for my sectors flown intra-Europe. Here are my wish lists.

1. Lounge access & extra baggage allowance, *A system wide.
2. Frequent (or rather the occasional op-up) would be nice.
2. Miles for redeeming, not quite important but usable ex KUL.

My travelling patterns:
1. Almost always through KUL-SIN-FRA-SIN-KUL on SQ (usually on W class, occasionally on Y, usually on 773ER).
2. 5 - 6 sectors on the European airpass (H class) mainly on LH and LO, SK occasionally.

These trips usually garner circa 14,000 - 15,000 miles and I usually do 3 - 4 of these trips per annum.

Most of my trips are on *A members.

Appreciate your advice on whether I should switch to M&M as currently my internal Europe sectors accrue only the actual miles instead of the minimum 500 miles on M&M.

*Edited*
Or any other FFP of *A carriers...

Thanks, Leo

[9V-JKL]

Given this pattern, you'll not hit the 100K miles needed to make Senator (*G) so I would not recommend you moving to M&M.

[jjpb3]

W class on SQ earns only 50% on M&M, so your long-haul flights will be heavily penalized.

[flo]

should i move to LH M&M once bmi is done? i travel my fair share of about 30K miles a year regularly in Y ... plus being in Austria, I can basically do those neat&cheap SEN/HON-runs. I think I can hit the 100K without major problems easily with those runs.

my only question is ... how is it with the redemptions on LH? could i switch to a better program when it comes to rewards?

[Lobster]

should i move to LH M&M once bmi is done? i travel my fair share of about 30K miles a year regularly in Y ... plus being in Austria, I can basically do those neat&cheap SEN/HON-runs. I think I can hit the 100K without major problems easily with those runs.

my only question is ... how is it with the redemptions on LH? could i switch to a better program when it comes to rewards?

Is it not 150K qualification if you live in Austria?

Well you will almost certainly be automatically moved to M&M when LH stops the BD scheme.

I first qualified as a SEN travelling almost exclusively in Y on Austrian. They had triple miles offers to the Balkans and I had to travel there regularly. Tie that in with a min of 1,000 miles per sector and it meant that I got 12,000 per return trip

[Desert Traveller]

Is it not 150K qualification if you live in Austria?

Well you will almost certainly be automatically moved to M&M when LH stops the BD scheme.

I first qualified as a SEN travelling almost exclusively in Y on Austrian. They had triple miles offers to the Balkans and I had to travel there regularly. Tie that in with a min of 1,000 miles per sector and it meant that I got 12,000 per return trip

Lobster, it's 100k everywhere except for Germany, where the threshold is 130k for SEN.

From that point of view, it's good for florianwagner. But if you travel on cheap whY-fares, you only get 125 miles per segment (domestic and intra-europe) plus the exec bonus once you've reached FTL. M&M is good if you travel in F and J, or on more expensive whY fares. 300% miles in F, 200% in J. Upgrade redemptions are expensive. In some cases an upgrade from whY to J is more expensive than a redemption in J.
But if you travel a lot on M&M airlines, the SEN benefits are useful. I missed a flight last week (business saver based on a pretty cheap whY fare), and managed to get away without buying a completely new ticket. Just had to pay the fare difference and change fee. And miss out on two segments...4000k+ miles lost. But at least I got to where I needed to get to.
The SEN Premium Award can come in handy, too. 50% more miles for any seat still available for sale in J or whY. I've booked flights using this recently. So far the flights haven't been ticketed (LH is working on it ), and only the base miles have been taken out of my account. But the reservation is confirmed and all looks ok. Will report back on how that goes.

[sudsoz]

As many of you, i will now be looking for an alternative frequent flyer program. Being PPS does not provide me with the benefits / service I expect from a leading airline. I might though continue to travel singapore airlines as the service is good. But am as well now considering other airlines

Which other regional frequent flyer program would you recommend? if possible compatible with star alliance.

Thanks

Wow - a PPS member who does not find that the benefits live up to expectations. What hope has A KF Gold got?

[jjpb3]

Wow - a PPS member who does not find that the benefits live up to expectations. What hope has A KF Gold got?

It's different for PPS members, because they got there by flying a lot in C and F. A KF Gold can get the status by flying in Y, where EG status ain't that bad (but also increasingly less generous).

[jn82]

Hi all,

Been reading through this thread and still confused about selection of the "best" FFP. I am interested in the earn/burn tradeoff, not status, for the purpose of this post. Based on what I have seen for LH's M&M vs SQ's KF, you get 200% if you bank the miles with M&M vs. only 125% with KF. I don't and will not fly F so the 300% vs. 150% isn't applicable to me... yet

When it comes to redemptions, the *A redemption chart for both airlines show 180,000 for a F return redemption for South East Asia - Europe/US, or 60,000 miles for a F return redemption South East Asia - South East Asia. So based on this alone does this mean it is pretty much a no brainer that M&M>KF in terms of the earn/burn tradeoff?

Given that business and first class flights on SQ accrue PPS miles seperately, won't the majority of people flying J and F, even ex-SIN, be better off banking SQ miles on other FFP (and use PPS for "status"/*G privileges)?

Downsides I can think of:

1. Probably a bit harder to make SQ redemption with M&M miles as less spaces awarded?
2. Harder to gain status on M&M for non-German residents (minimum 100,000 miles?), but not an issue if you have/can get PPS?

Got a few car rentals and flights coming up which award miles, so need to settle on a FFP if not will just resume with KF (which by my calculations will take forever to redeem anything worthwhile).


Apologise if this seems overly simplistic to many FFP old-birds, as I am trying to make sense of all this. Cheers...

[KeithMEL]

2. Harder to gain status on M&M for non-German residents (minimum 100,000 miles?)

The threshold is actually lower for non-German residents as German residents need 130k status miles for SEN status.

[jn82]

The threshold is actually lower for non-German residents as German residents need 130k status miles for SEN status.

Oh thanks for this correction. I incorrectly thought it was 100,000 for the lowest of the status classes.