Would SQ honour IATA "Fully Endorsable" tickets (if they still exist)?

[flymeroundthemoon]

I was talking to some people at a cocktail party who still seemed to believe that all AIrlines still charge the same fares on the same routes, with fares set by IATA. How quaint.

This started me wondering if IATA "Full Fare" fully refundable/re-routable/endorsable tickets still exist? And, if so, would SQ refuse to honour such a J ticket on 380/77W?

[jhm]

Have a look at IATA Flex Fares. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that each airline still needs to opt in or opt out of such a fare for any particular route.

[TerryK]

Have a look at IATA Flex Fares. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that each airline still needs to opt in or opt out of such a fare for any particular route.

Your understanding is correct. Nevertheless, SQ does accept YY fares for most routes.

The point is academic as YY fares are usually the highest. Many airlines publish full F/C fares which are lower than YY fares for the same route. For routes with published SQ fares, SQ full F/C fares are usually lower than YY F/C fares. There is no financial advantage to use YY fares. The only time YY fares make sense is for routes where no published F/C fares exist and you can use SQ for part of the itinerary. Those are rare; fares ex-TIP (Tripoli) come to mind.

[jhm]

The only time YY fares make sense is for routes where no published F/C fares exist and you can use SQ for part of the itinerary.

... and of course the situations for which such fares were designed (and for which a premium is paid), i.e. interlining between several airlines on a paricular route. They also sometimes come in handy when trying to take advantage of fare differentials.

[TerryK]

....This started me wondering if IATA "Full Fare" fully refundable/re-routable/endorsable tickets still exist? And, if so, would SQ refuse to honour such a J ticket on 380/77W?

Take JFK-SIN as an example, one way base fares are:

SQ C $4355 (Promotional J $3210)
YY C $7188
SQ F $5917
YY F $11319

The only reason to use YY fare is to gain more PPS Values to qualify for QPP or TPP.

Yes, it has been a slow day in the office.

[Kiwi]

The point is academic as YY fares are usually the highest. Many airlines publish full F/C fares which are lower than YY fares for the same route. For routes with published SQ fares, SQ full F/C fares are usually lower than YY F/C fares. There is no financial advantage to use YY fares. The only time YY fares make sense is for routes where no published F/C fares exist and you can use SQ for part of the itinerary. Those are rare; fares ex-TIP (Tripoli) come to mind.

There are plenty of routes where YY is cheaper than airline specific filed fares.

[jhm]

IATA have a set of selection criteria to select fares for each route, e.g. the highest unrestricted r/t fare for each carrier etc. They then determine the standard deviation * 1.25; drop fares outside this range; average out what's left; and finally add an interline premium to get the IATA flex fare (which is usually set annually).

[Kiwi]

Are you sure? I can think of some routes where YY fares are much lower than the fares of any airlines on the route (including codeshares).

[jhm]

Are you sure? I can think of some routes where YY fares are much lower than the fares of any airlines on the route (including codeshares).

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that seems to be what the current IATA PFCH says (section 4.2.3). Also, from the above link I posted:

* Flex Fares are produced by a mechanism that automatically calculates interlineable fares based on average carrier fares in affected markets

* An interlining premium is added to account for the added flexibility of these interline fares

[TerryK]

Are you sure? I can think of some routes where YY fares are much lower than the fares of any airlines on the route (including codeshares).

Can you give us some examples? Would love to know them.

[Kiwi]

I haven't checked recently but for some years now YY much lower than airlines on NZ to USA business class, for example. That doesn't mean YY is cheap, just not as ridiculous as normal fares charged by the airlines.

[KVS]

Generally, the value of the YY fares lies in the absence of carrier-specific restrictions, particularly in terms of routing...

[KVS Availability Tool 5.0.0/Diamond - Sabre: Fares/TVN/CA]

SIN  Singapore Changi SG [WSSS]
PAR  Paris Metro FR = BVA CDG ORY
R/T  Jun-May

Carrier    From    To    Fare      Cur   AdvanceP  Min  Max  Fare Basis/TD | Travel Period
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  ---  -----------------------------
SQ         SIN     PAR       772   USD        ***    5   1M  NGV2SG
SQ         SIN     PAR       911   USD        ***    5   1M  QGV2SG
SQ         SIN     PAR       980   USD        ***    5   1M  QGV2LXSG              -31 Oct
SQ         SIN     PAR       980   USD        ***    5   1M  QGV2SKSG              -31 Aug
SQ         SIN     PAR       980   USD        ***    5   1M  WELHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1049   USD        ***       12M  ERSG
SQ         SIN     PAR      1049   USD        ***    5   1M  WELHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1119   USD        ***       12M  ERLXSG                -31 Oct
SQ         SIN     PAR      1119   USD        ***       12M  ERSKSG                -31 Aug
SQ         SIN     PAR      1258   USD        ***       12M  BRSG
SQ         SIN     PAR      1327   USD        ***       12M  BRLXSG                -31 Oct
SQ         SIN     PAR      1327   USD        ***       12M  BRSKSG                -31 Aug
SQ         SIN     PAR      1327   USD        ***       12M  ERLHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1397   USD        ***       12M  ERLHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1466   USD        ***       12M  MRLHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1536   USD        ***       12M  YRSG
SQ         SIN     PAR      1536   USD        ***       12M  MRLHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1605   USD        ***       12M  YRSKSG                -31 Aug
SQ         SIN     PAR      1605   USD        ***       12M  YRLXSG                -31 Oct
SQ         SIN     PAR      1605   USD        ***       12M  BRLHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1674   USD        ***       12M  BRLHSG                -30 Sep
SQ         SIN     PAR      1814   USD        ***       12M  SRSG
SQ         SIN     PAR      1883   USD        ***       12M  SRLXSG                -31 Oct
SQ         SIN     PAR      1883   USD        ***       12M  SRSKSG                -31 Aug
[B]YY         SIN     PAR      2237   USD        ***    6   6M  YPXIF6M
[/B]SQ         SIN     PAR      2369   USD        ***       12M  YEE8
[B]YY         SIN     PAR      2792   USD        ***    6   6M  YPXIF6M[/B]
SQ         SIN     PAR      4035   USD        ***       12M  JRSG
SQ         SIN     PAR      4798   USD        ***       12M  CRSG
SQ         SIN     PAR      5355   USD        ***            YR8
SQ         SIN     PAR      5771   USD        ***       12M  ZRSG
[B]YY         SIN     PAR      6699   USD        ***            YIF[/B]
SQ         SIN     PAR      7368   USD        ***            CR8
[B]YY         SIN     PAR      7989   USD        ***            CIF[/B]
SQ         SIN     PAR      7992   USD        ***       12M  FRSG
[B]YY         SIN     PAR      9874   USD        ***            YIF[/B]
[B]YY         SIN     PAR      9874   USD        ***            CIF[/B]
SQ         SIN     PAR     11117   USD        ***            FR8
SQ         SIN     PAR     12783   USD        ***       12M  R
SQ         SIN     PAR     12783   USD        ***       12M  RRSG
[B]YY         SIN     PAR     12941   USD        ***            FIF[/B]
[B]YY         SIN     PAR     19379   USD        ***            FIF[/B]

[flymeroundthemoon]

Wrap

Thanks for the interesting info Guys. I guess, to summarise:

1. Yes Fully endorsable fares (YY) are still available but are generally very expensive.
2. Yes, (Probably as a result of Item 1 above) SQ will honour these fares.

[TerryK]

I haven't checked recently but for some years now YY much lower than airlines on NZ to USA business class, for example......

I randomly checked AKL-LAX, RT base fares:

AC C is $4189
NZ J is $5485
AA J is $5871 (D is $4492 QF codeshares allowed)
QF J is $6520
YY C is $6675
CX J is $9701 (via HKG)
EK C is $12278 (via DXB)

You can easily do a lot better than YY C fare.

[Kiwi]

I think you are quoting in USD?

The cheaper fares are current sales (except maybe AC C and AA D - haven't seen that before).