Bizarre Fares - website booking

[SQJunkie]

I did a dummy booking on singaporeair.com.au:

Same dates in May 09, in F (not R).

Syd-Kul return: AUD10,800
Syd-Sin return: AUD 5,852

I think it's a bit steep to charge an additional AUD5,000 for Sin-Kul in J class

Does anyone have any explanation for these fares?

Also, the new J class discounts (2 or more out of Oz) are not reflected in bookings for the same dates. Does that mean that the discounts are only available if you book only thru a TA?

[jhm]

I think it's a bit steep to charge an additional AUD5,000 for Sin-Kul in J class

Does anyone have any explanation for these fares?

Air fare pricing isn't based solely on distance - different routes have different pricing/rules and different (changing) availability.

[mhadian]

also about the pricing, i'm trying to book SYD-BKK, since they don't have F to BKK so I have to make 2 booking separately, it gave me

SYD - SIN AUD 5852
SIN - BKK AUD 982

then I try the online booking through zuji, and it gave me total SYD - BKK AUD 5782. I've checked the fare details and it's not a discounted fares.

edit: also, I checked SYD - KUL on zuji and it gave me AUD 5760, hmm

[philipat]

Long way round

Air fare pricing isn't based solely on distance - different routes have different pricing/rules and different (changing) availability.

Very true. SQ is still trying to offset discounts from UK/Australia by holding fares higher within Asia. It's now sustantially less expensive from Indonesia to book Premium fares to London out of Australia and take Virgin Blue/Tiger/JetStar down under then pick up SQ J in Oz. Throw in a stopover and a few nights in Oz? Still cheaper. It's a long way round but for me its no problem, wouldn't suit everyone.

[Kiwi]

Very true. SQ is still trying to offset discounts from UK/Australia by holding fares higher within Asia. It's now sustantially less expensive from Indonesia to book Premium fares to London out of Australia and take Virgin Blue/Tiger/JetStar down under then pick up SQ J in Oz. Throw in a stopover and a few nights in Oz? Still cheaper. It's a long way round but for me its no problem, wouldn't suit everyone.

What a load of rubbish. Fare construction is complex and your bashing is inaccurate.

[philipat]

Please Check the facts first

What a load of rubbish. Fare construction is complex and your bashing is inaccurate.

Thanks for your kind comments. Please also check the SQ website and factor in the special offers on J available out of OZ at present.

The lowest J Class DPS-LHR-DPS midweek fare (I selected May13/21 at random) is USD 5600 or about AUD 8000.

I can fly DPS-Aus-DPS for about USD 350 on special offers from Jetstar/Virgin. That is in Economy of course. And excuse me, I am not bashing anyone.

So now, please check your facts and get back to me?

[B727]

SQ is still trying to offset discounts from UK/Australia by holding fares higher within Asia. It's now sustantially less expensive from Indonesia to book Premium fares to London out of Australia and take Virgin Blue/Tiger/JetStar down under then pick up SQ J in Oz. Throw in a stopover and a few nights in Oz? Still cheaper. It's a long way round but for me its no problem, wouldn't suit everyone.

There is some truth to this. Alternatively, one can also fly to SIN from any regional SE Asian city and take advantage of their on-sale business fares ex-SIN, particularly if flying all the way to Oz strikes one as "far"

[philipat]

True

There is some truth to this. Alternatively, one can also fly to SIN from any regional SE Asian city and take advantage of their on-sale business fares ex-SIN, particularly if flying all the way to Oz strikes one as "far"

B727 (Hightail was a long time ago?) thanks and , yes that's true. Premium discounts out of SIN are, however, unpredictable and cannot always be booked online, especially from outside Singapore. And I have a home in Margaret River WA so spending a few days in Oz is never a problem.

International Hotels have now finally reached the point whereby they can guarantee the best available rate is on our website. Guaranteed. That's because they have realised that it costs them less to provide a better rate than to give a commission to a booking site. Airlines, actually not all airlines but SQ in particular, are still in denial. SQ still wants to attempt to charge high fares and quietly discount via TA's. Yet, on the other hand, they have this fight going on with TA's in India about giving TA commissions. They truly have to make up their minds about how they want to move forward because they can't have it both ways? Airlines will, IMHO, within 5 years have to reach the same position as Hotels because the use iof middlemen incurs commissions and that means costs which could be avoided, which means efficiency.

It's actaully all just business strategy, not bashing anyone or anything Kiwi. Now back to the sheep.

[LionCity]

I am not sure if SQ is using Asia to offset discounts from UK/Australia is correct. It is an assumption that SQ is subscribing to this theory. I noted the airfares in Asia have also dropped and it varies from destination to destination. Part of the differences may have been that the Sterling and AUD have dropped from their previous levels. Home airlines do tend to have higher fare and I think SQ is still popular with a number of Indonesians and the Indonesian economy seems to be holding better than back in 1997.

[LukeGT]

Very true. SQ is still trying to offset discounts from UK/Australia by holding fares higher within Asia. It's now sustantially less expensive from Indonesia to book Premium fares to London out of Australia and take Virgin Blue/Tiger/JetStar down under then pick up SQ J in Oz. Throw in a stopover and a few nights in Oz? Still cheaper. It's a long way round but for me its no problem, wouldn't suit everyone.

Notwithstanding the fact I don't like the SQ strategy during the last period,
as someone pointed out, the fare prices and the air fares structure depend on many factors.
With all the due respect, it's not a news that fares out of a country are very cheaper than from another one and consequently the positioning flight + the stay + the fare from that country is still less than the direct fare.

Italy has been very well known for years to BA flyers as one of the cheapest european country regarding the BA fares to US/AU/Asia.

Now times have changed and flying from Italy to US is cheaper on separate tickets via UK.

Finally, different continents are affected in a different way from the crisis, and I suppose the same is valid for the air travel demand.
QF offers amazing fares LHR-SYD-LHR. It's not the same for the SYD-LHR-SYD.

So I can't see a particular fault in SQ decisions to keep different fare prices out of different countries (and areas, and continents)!

[philipat]

Find a Way Around it

Notwithstanding the fact I don't like the SQ strategy during the last period,
as someone pointed out, the fare prices and the air fares structure depend on many factors.
With all the due respect, it's not a news that fares out of a country are very cheaper than from another one and consequently the positioning flight + the stay + the fare from that country is still less than the direct fare.

Italy has been very well known for years to BA flyers as one of the cheapest european country regarding the BA fares to US/AU/Asia.

Now times have changed and flying from Italy to US is cheaper on separate tickets via UK.

Finally, different continents are affected in a different way from the crisis, and I suppose the same is valid for the air travel demand.
QF offers amazing fares LHR-SYD-LHR. It's not the same for the SYD-LHR-SYD.

So I can't see a particular fault in SQ decisions to keep different fare prices out of different countries (and areas, and continents)!

OK, I think you're missing the strategic business issues but, in the meantime, there are ways to get around SQ pricing policies. As described

[philipat]

Monopoly

I am not sure if SQ is using Asia to offset discounts from UK/Australia is correct. It is an assumption that SQ is subscribing to this theory. I noted the airfares in Asia have also dropped and it varies from destination to destination. Part of the differences may have been that the Sterling and AUD have dropped from their previous levels. Home airlines do tend to have higher fare and I think SQ is still popular with a number of Indonesians and the Indonesian economy seems to be holding better than back in 1997.

Actually, no, SQ has a 90% market share of the Indonesian market and is abusing it. Nobody wants to fly Garuda for many reasons, mostly safety. The only way to redress this would be for GOI to place 50/50 market share restrictions on all Indo/SIN routes through code shares etc. To its credit, GOI has resisted the tempatation to do this so far, although I do know that there are some discussions ongoing at the highest levels of GOI regarding this very issue. But SQ is abusing the freedom via price gouging. This is normally described as a monopoly. And shall we now talk prices?

[LionCity]

Actually, no, SQ has a 90% market share of the Indonesian market and is abusing it. Nobody wants to fly Garuda for many raesons, mostly safety. This is normally described as a monopoly. And shall we now talk prices?

So it is also a safety issue as part of the marketing mix to derive the price.

[kt74]

SQ is still trying to offset discounts from UK/Australia by holding fares higher within Asia.

Huh?! Really? I thought the ex-UK and ex-Oz discounts were because SQ is trying to stimulate demand and match competitor pricing. SQ holds fares high in Asia because it can. SQ holds fares particularly high ex-Indonesia, because, as you say, nobody wants to fly Garuda. I'm sure fares will come down when Emirates starts offering 10 flights a day ex-CGK. If you don't like it, you can always fly Garuda. I hear they're cheap...

Airlines, actually not all airlines but SQ in particular, are still in denial. SQ still wants to attempt to charge high fares and quietly discount via TA's

Well, ex-UK, the SQ website is almost always the cheapest source for SQ fares. Even last week's business class promo turned up on the SQ site (albeit a day later than some other TAs). The same is true for most of the larger established UK/US airlines. The only airlines I can think of that still quietly discount via TAs tend to be smaller, less web-savvy ones like TG

[SQJunkie]

Air fare pricing isn't based solely on distance - different routes have different pricing/rules and different (changing) availability.

I understand the explanation.

However my booking was for exactly the same flights, same origin, same dates, same metal Syd-Sin and vv. The only difference was the connecting flight Sin-Kul and vv, which had to be in J class, now that F class has been done away with.

I did not have to book the 2 sectors separately, they are "through" fares.

I'm more inclined to think that this is yet another limitation of the website booking engine, rather than a device to offset discounting in other markets et al.

Surely, by anyone's reckoning, there is no way to justify the additional AUD5K for the Sin-Kul J sectors. I don't think SQ could justify it too if I asked them face to face.