Kicked out of J class - SIN->DAC

[acey]

Hi folks,

Saw this interesting incident on SQ436 (SIN->Dhaka).

Someone who has a J class BP decided to downgrade herself (non-officially, she still holds on to the J class BP) and seated herself in seat 31E. That's because she wanted to sit next to her partner.

When the official occupier of 31E showed up, she told him to take her seat in the J class cabin instead, and he happily did that.

Just as the aircraft was about to take off, he moved back to the Y class cabin, apparently, being kicked out of J class cabin.

So the key question here is: Isnt it a private arrangement between two passengers to swop seats ? Why was he asked to leave J class cabin (note Y class cabin was only 40% occupied).

cheers
Acey

[SQ001]

I would have kicked him out too. It would be nothing more than common sense to inform the cabin crew about such an arrangement before hand. In case there is a crash and people die, we know where everyone is seated. On a less drastic note, if there was a special meal requested, it would also be delivered promptly with less hassles and confusion.

[zvezda]

If I had been working the J cabin and knew that a passenger wasn't the passenger assigned to the seat, I would have asked to see his boarding pass. Seeing that it was a Y boarding pass, of course, I would have kicked him out of J.

[zxcvbn]

The J-class BP holder who downgraded herself should have at least told the crew, so they would know and make appropriate changes to their manifest.

Also, the 'upgraded' person should have explained the situation to the crew as well, and they should check with the 'downgraded' person before kicking him out of J class.

[LukeGT]

the 'upgraded' person should have explained the situation to the crew as well, and they should check with the 'downgraded' person before kicking him out of J class.

i completely agree with this point of view.

[matt_will_fix_it]

Its a very similar situation to this post http://www.sqtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3242

I guess the only difference is there was still space availalbe in the class of travel.

[KeithMEL]

I don't think the 2 situations are entirely analogous. A crucial factual difference is that the seat swapping and subsequent upgrade received by taipeiflyer's cousin was organised and ultimately approved by staff, whereas that is clearly not the case here.

[milehighj]

Last year I was on a Silkair flight and seated in a economy class window A seat. The middle seat was empty.

After take-off the wife of the passenger in the aisle C seat came from business class and wanted to sit in the middle B seat. She was very polite and apologetic about asking me to remove my belongings which were in the unoccupied middle seat - then suggested that I should take her seat in business.

I told her that we would have to check with the crew, and that they might have a problem with that.

Which was indeed the case. They flatly refused to allow a seat swap, and the only concession to her was to bring her business class meal and wine to her.

[matt_will_fix_it]

So I guess the only situation a seat swap would be allowed is when the person in the higher class wants to sit in a lower class, and that class is full?

[flyguy]

not sure of official company policy on seat changes - but it generally depends on the crew. The sometimes somewhat rather silly notion that in the uneventful crash that the airline would know who was seating where - doesnt seem too right as whats the point if all pax have perished - then going by the passenger manifest the airline would know who exactly was on board anyway - where he actually seated can be as which seat he was assigned. There have been instances where all seats were taken in a row (usually in Y) whilst there are many seats left unoccupied elsewhere in the cabin - and its ok to change to an unoccupied seat once in fact when "door closed". Have done that a few times and seen others doing it and usually would tell the crew manning that section.
However have read from some threads that some obvious crew with an attitude or over-zealous crew have asked pax to return to their original seat even if there are many empty ones on the even silly pretext as "maintaining aircraft balance"! - altho this will only happen if all the pax are squeezed into one section where the others are empty but when just a few pax switching to empty rows would definitely not be a problem.

[zvezda]

However have read from some threads that some obvious crew with an attitude or over-zealous crew have asked pax to return to their original seat even if there are many empty ones on the even silly pretext as "maintaining aircraft balance"! - altho this will only happen if all the pax are squeezed into one section where the others are empty but when just a few pax switching to empty rows would definitely not be a problem.

On smaller airliners such as turboprops and RJs, weight and balance calculations sometimes require moving passengers aft so that center of mass is not too far forward relative to center of lift. It is not a silly pretext but an essential safety consideration.

[SQ001]

The sometimes somewhat rather silly notion that in the uneventful crash that the airline would know who was seating where - doesnt seem too right as whats the point if all pax have perished - then going by the passenger manifest the airline would know who exactly was on board anyway - where he actually seated can be as which seat he was assigned.

I got to flag you here... Yes it is of use to know where people were seated. Not 100% fool-proof because people do move around once airborne. However for forensics purposes post-mortem, knowing where the deceased sat in the plane will indicate how he/she died. It is helpful for investigators to piece together the sequence of events, who died first, how and why it happened. How did the injuries appear in relation to the position of the seat and especially if a bomb caused an explosive in-flight decompression, determining the state of the markings on the body left behind by the explosion in relation to the position of this deceased's assigned seat will give a rough indication of the point of the bomb.

So when a crew tells you to remain in your assigned seat till after the plane has taken off, you know why.... Morbid as this may sound.

altho this will only happen if all the pax are squeezed into one section where the others are empty but when just a few pax switching to empty rows would definitely not be a problem.

Well, if a few people here and a few people there, it all adds up so where does the crew draw the line? Better not to allow is at all to begin with. In the grand scheme of things, passengers do not see the big picture because they are only looking at the PTV, the aisle, or the window. Put yourself in the crew's shoes, they are looking at a SEA of HUNDREDS of faces, all wanting something. So when a crew says "no", listen.

That being said, I have taken off from Rockhampton Airport (ROK) in Australia on an SQ A310 where ALL the passengers were asked to sit at the aft end. Runway was very short back on those good old days. After the plane was airborne and the seatbelt sign extinguished, we were allowed to move wherever we wanted. Cool huh? Nowadays nothing so interesting anymore as ROK has lengthened the runway to accomodate a 747.

[kapitan]

In every flight,... my wallet may be in my handcarry stowed overhead, but my passport is always in my pocket.... with the hope that I could be identified......

[zvezda]

In every flight,... my wallet may be in my handcarry stowed overhead, but my passport is always in my pocket.... with the hope that I could be identified......

I think carrying a smokehood, flashlight, and leather gloves in a bumbag is at least as important as the passport.

[SQ001]

In every flight,... my wallet may be in my handcarry stowed overhead, but my passport is always in my pocket.... with the hope that I could be identified......

Interesting to note that in most cases, the victim is either charred (due to fire after crash), without clothes (sudden decompression), or in pieces (high speed impact ala MI185).

Occassionally they are found intact still strapped to their seats as if asleep.