SIA 737 MAX Aircraft

[LPPS]

I really don't understand the Airbus cabin width argument. The difference is small and the average passenger wouldn't notice. Airlines don't care anyway.

Airlines actually do care about every inch they can get on usable floorspace. It provides more flexibility for the Premium Class segment and with the 321LR options it does come into its own against the 737. Sample: Jet Blue has likely one of the best premium cabins on the single aisle 320 family with its Mint product that is a class above SIA's 737 Business Class. Jet Blue competes with BA and AA on the trans Atlantic London runs very effectively with a much more fuel efficient aircraft that brings its break even points down substantially.

SAS, Qantas, Lufthansa, Swiss, etc. are all looking to adopt similar strategies - point to point rather than hub traffic models with larger aircrafts that will be very popular with business and premium leisure travellers in the post COVID world.

And passengers feel the differences as well....a good sample is SIA's 787-10 Business Class configuration...unless one is very skinny you will feel how cramped the entry and exit to/from your seat is and your elbow will constantly touch the seat covers (especially when using a laptop to work).. Customers do talk about this and provide feedback to their companies or elect different aircraft types for future flights to avoid unpleasant experiences.

Every good airline manager will confirm the point: Every inch counts in the available floorspace (unless you are a budget carrier of course).

[flyguy]

The width of A320 is 12 ft 2 inch and the 737-800 is 11 ft 7 inch - which is basically very small difference. Airlines can fit in any class of seats in either aircraft ie SIA if it wanted can similiarly fit in Jetbue mint biz class seat on its 737-800 too.
On the 787-10 business class, do take note that this is the Regional biz class and its the same seat as in the A350 Regional with its regional biz class too. This biz class seat is different from the long haul biz class seats on SIA.
Ultimately the sizes doesn't differ much from each of the same class ie A320 and 737 or the A350 and 787. It's up to the airlines to decide which manufacturer and depending on the numbers ordered and the discounts given by the aircraft manufacturers. The seat pitch is all decided by the airlines concerned and especially for budget, they will squeeze in as many seats to the max whether its a A320 or a 737.

[FN-GM]

Airlines actually do care about every inch they can get on usable floorspace. It provides more flexibility for the Premium Class segment

If that was the case SQ wouldn't be taking on the 737. They wouldn't have even ordered them for MI in the first place. Although plans do change, if they wanted they could have sent the 737MAX to Scoot and taken on their A320neo order.

[LPPS]

If that was the case SQ wouldn't be taking on the 737. They wouldn't have even ordered them for MI in the first place. Although plans do change, if they wanted they could have sent the 737MAX to Scoot and taken on their A320neo order.

As we all know, purchase decisions are made based on multiple factors - sometimes little to do what we just discussed - Airbus had to give many airliners special deals for A380 delays and issues (i.e. SQ's A333 fleet deal) and Boeing had to do the same with the 737MAX and its 787 program besides protecting or buying market share via multiple transactions.

Competition in any segment is good for users and their customers provided it remains safe and sound in terms of the product.One can only wish all airplane supplies the best for their future and time will tell how the MAX will go against the 220/320 family combo. Embraer will also join the fun in the smaller segment as will China with its own products.

Coming back to SQ 737MAX.... as their management changed over the years, focus on cargo and low cost and cost reduction became substantially more important than competing head on with premium carriers and premium products. Hence, SIA did cut its First Class offerings by half on the 777 and 380 whilst the 350 and 787 feature only Business Class as top product (and their so called Regional offering is not the greatest). There are different opinions inside the carrier on the past fleet decisions including the MAX and not everybody is happy that it found its way to the main group in SIA livery.

There are a lot of rumors on "refreshing" the senior management ranks including the CEO given the performance and many of the past decisions (including the Silk Air/SIA merger and the MAX introduction). Again, time will tell as the airlines industry is managing its way though the current situation.

Let's see how long the 737MAX will last with SQ ... in the past the company did not shy away from making big decisions like the MD11 cancellation or the 340 deal with Boeing to change towards the 777 family.

[Jumbojet Lover]

Let's see how long the 737MAX will last with SQ ... in the past the company did not shy away from making big decisions like the MD11 cancellation or the 340 deal with Boeing to change towards the 777 family.

The challenge would be the substantial A320 backlog, as the more popular single-aisle family with many more orders than the 737Max. But who knows, SQ being SQ could find a workaround if they really wanted to get their hands on A320neos for their narrowbody fleet - through lessors, taking over now-excessive orders from other airlines trying to get out of them, completely swapping the Scoot and SQ narrowbody fleets etc.

[flyguy]

Doubt very much that SIA will change its mind on the 737-800 Max and go for th A320Neos, as in the first place the change from A320 to Max is because the 737 Max have a better range than the A320Neo and marginal better efficiency in the per seat mile.
Another main issue why SQ will not change to the A320 Neo is because it had to swap 15 A320neo and two A350-900 passenger aircraft that it doesn't need which are already in the SIA Group order book for the 7 A350 freighters. If SQ have intended to use the A320Neos, it would not have swap these 15 planes.

[FN-GM]

737-800 Max

It's "737 MAX 8" not "737-800 Max"

737 Max have a better range than the A320Neo

Would a 1% (70km) increase in range make a huge difference?

[flyguy]

Like said its a marginal difference although if based on seat mile its higher and if you refer to then what SIA said is that the main reason for SIA to buy the Max is their range is better and fly further and can be used on route like SIN to FUK or any distance over 6 hours.

[LPPS]

Like said its a marginal difference although if based on seat mile its higher and if you refer to then what SIA said is that the main reason for SIA to buy the Max is their range is better and fly further and can be used on route like SIN to FUK or any distance over 6 hours.

A similar argument was put forward to another long-time Boeing customer: KLM. However, the AF/KL group decided to drop the 737 that came as another shock to Boeing given that KLM is the oldest airline in the world and a rock solid Boeing customer. Air France also ordered just about every Boeing plane in history but as part of their rationale for the decision to drop the MAX offer and go Airbus was the 321LRX offering combined with the A220. This combo will likely get more offers unless Boeing is able to bring Embraer back to table or drop the price for the entry level Max more.

[flyguy]

Boeing is looking at a new plane for its New Midsize Aircraft (NMA) to replace its 737 line.

[jul247]

Boeing is looking at a new plane for its New Midsize Aircraft (NMA) to replace its 737 line.

Not really, Boeing is currently all hands on the deck to sort out their B737max issue post-return to service, clearing the production backlog and stored frames and they are working on resolving B787 production issue. B777X line has come to a halt. Boeing simply does not have enough resources to work on another clean sheet project now. The only one they are churning money could only be their aged B767 line. B777 classics is done for. Airbus A321neo/LR/XLR order has handed them more than 60% of the market share, will be quite hard for Boeing to compete, but Delta Airlines is holding out for Boeing's answer.

One of the few reasons SilkAir went for B737NG and B737MAX was slot availability when the RFP was put out. Airbus A320neo slots back then was fully booked and is still fully booked until 2026 1Q. A320neo has the first mover advantage in the race with B737MAX when it was formally launched in December 2010, but the industry already knew since Feb of same year Airbus gonna do re-engined A320neo family. Thousands of orders were placed by the time SilkAir called for RFP for new fleet. MAX was only launched in Aug 2011.

SilkAir placed an order for 68 B737NG And B737MAX in 2012. The first A320neo won't enter service until 2016, SilkAir flew first B737NG in 2014, then in 2017 first 737MAX. SilkAir's plan at that time was to put 737NG on its Hiroshima and Busan route which require more range than its current A320ceo could offer. B737MAX offers that few extra nautical miles. B737NG would be bridging solution to B737MAX. Additionally, B737NG can carry extra 9 passengers compared to A320 family back then (Airbus Spaceflex was launched in 2014). SilkAir also simply does not need the longer ranged A321neo. Therefore settled with B737NG/MAX. Should the A321LR was made available earlier before the 2012 RFP, story might have been different.

(PS: There was also a rumour that the then-Silkair CEO Leslie Thng preferred Boeing product over Airbus hence the order. Leslie later on went to Vistara to be CEO and placed an order for B787 as well, not sure how true was the rumour)

[LPPS]

Ultra-Low Cost Allegiant orders Boeing 737 MAX aircraft

Allegiant has placed an order for up to 100 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft:

Key Points:

- The airline is placing a firm order for 50 jets, and has options for 50 more jets
- The airline will take delivery of 30 Boeing 737 MAX 7s and 20 Boeing 737 MAX 8-200s; - the 737 MAX 8-200 was otherwise ordered by Ryanair
- This order is worth roughly $5 billion at list prices
- The 737 MAX will reduce fuel burn and carbon emissions by 20% compared to - Allegiant’s current aircraft (Airbus A319/320)

After the loss of KLM and Qantas to Airbus this order is a major win for Boeing (the financial and technical package must have been very attractive for Allegiant to make this switch). Time will tell what Spirit and Frontier will do as they are in the same category of ultra low cost. They usually buy pre-loved planes - first time to purchase new airliners.

As stated before, the 737 Max has a future but at present more towards the low cost segment.

[LPPS]

One for the SIA MAX fans....

https://liveandletsfly.com/singapore...livery-flight/

[flyguy]

Believed Ryanair will order more 737 Max despite what they maybe talking about even buying airbus , as they are using this as a way to get better discount from Boeing. It's the same with before Air Asia using Boeing as a hedge to get better prices for its airbus planes.

[MainlyMiles]

Singapore Airlines is introducing the Boeing 737-8 MAX on three India routes this month:

• SQ522/523 Hyderabad (CCU) from 10JAN22
• SQ516/517 Kolkata (CCU) from 10JAN22
• SQ534/535 Kochi (COK) from 17JAN22