SQ A345 withdrawal thread

[fablee]

5.10.2013
9V-SGA was spotted on the ground at SIN. She has been painted all white awaiting that trip to her maker. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...31379395_o.jpg

[CarbonMan]

Great pic, Fablee. Let the funeral march begin.

[MAN Flyer]

Strangely enough I have seen TG's A345's back at Suvarnabhumi recently, including this week. They were supposed to be in storage at Don Muang.

It's a shame Airbus can't come up with a programme that allows them to run on two engines instead of four. They could use them as A330's then.

[milehighj]

Ah. Not destined for Shadow Air apparently.

[Russ]

Even if they reengined them, the airframe is just too heavy and will just burn too much fuel. Airbus is now looking at an A330 Lite with short range with a lighter airframe to carry less fuel. This is the issue with the A345 - it is a heavy airframe to carry lots of fuel that makes it even heavier and the fuel economics are just not viable anymore. An empty A345 weighs in at 170T, compared to 125T for the A333, 145T for the 772LR and 165T for the 77W (much larger). A B744 is only 5% heavier than an A345. Even if you replace the 4 Trent 500s with 2 Trent 700s, it will still be significantly heavier than the A333. The wing of the A345 is 20% larger than the A333. The cost of redesign, recertification etc is just too much (given how few were made). And because of the airframe weight, you would lose range compared to a normal A333.... doesn't work.

Airbus only made 34 A345s (and 97 A346s)..... a failure by any standards (compared about 900 772ER, 772LR and 77W combined with about 300 in the order book). Until the A380 came along, Airbus never had a real long-haul machine that could compete with Boeings (except for a few years in the early 1990s with the A343 which was killed off by the 772ER).

The A345 will go the way of the B747SP, ending up in fund-short airlines who buy cheap aircraft, like those still operating 707s in the 1990s. And VIP fleets.

The B772-200LR has done slightly better than the A345, and at 145T is much lighter than the heavy A345 - even then, only 56 made so far.

[Short Final]

Nice catch with the pic. Very sad though. I have not been following very closely, so sorry if this has been discussed: will there be new capacity/one stop route to EWR to take up the slack? Or will SQ rely solely on FRA-JFK to serve the New York route?

[CarbonMan]

Nice catch with the pic. Very sad though. I have not been following very closely, so sorry if this has been discussed: will there be new capacity/one stop route to EWR to take up the slack? Or will SQ rely solely on FRA-JFK to serve the New York route?

None has been announced, Short Final. There was some talk about Milan but just talk.

[9V-SIA]

If you look at SQ strategy they want to position themselves as a premium product. Not a commodity which seems to be what the airline industry is moving towards.

Premium product commands a premium price.
Look at Apple vs Samsung smart phone battle

I think they can TRY to command premium price to USA by reducing capacity

So no replacement of nonstop services unfortunately

The only flaw in this thinking is that they have to compete with a lot of airlines that offer one stop service to USA

Nonstop? No competition so arguably they can command a premium WITH THE RIGHT AIRCRAFT. A345 was wrong aircraft. A380ER? A350R? I'm watching this space with interest

[9V-JKL]

I actually think the airline industry is a commodity; a perishable one as well. If you don't sell the space by the flight, you won't be able to sell it later.

[milehighj]

If you look at SQ strategy they want to position themselves as a premium product. Not a commodity which seems to be what the airline industry is moving towards.

Premium product commands a premium price.
Look at Apple vs Samsung smart phone battle

I think that this is a risky business model for an airline to pursue, albeit one renown for its quality.

Firstly, airline seats are not limited edition Hermes bags where they only need to find 100 non-price sensitive customers. Neither are they selling mobile phones which people where the premium for a premium Apple product over an inferior Samsung product is a few hundred dollars or less, and a purchase made rather infrequently.

SQ has thousands of First and Business Class seats to fill every day, and by virtue of that it IS a commodity. That's not to say that they cannot be the best purveyor of that commodity, and seek to command a higher price.

However, to build an entire business model on selling those thousands of seats every day 20-40% higher than the competition is "Not an Investible Business Idea" today. And I think that their poor ongoing financial performance demonstrates this better than any of us armchair pundits ever could.


Btw, I'm certainly not saying that they need to lower their prices to the exact level of what their inferior competition charges. I am saying that the big premium they expect to earn is not sustainable across such a wide and largely commoditised marketplace.

[lfc]

milehighj, well said. And it is not like the premium segment they are holding onto has no credible competitors. They prefer not to dilute the brand by setting up subsidiaries to cater for non premium, well, in that case, then they really ought to keep to a small fleet for the small segment, certainly not 100

[lfc]

Nonstop? No competition so arguably they can command a premium WITH THE RIGHT AIRCRAFT. A345 was wrong aircraft. A380ER? A350R? I'm watching this space with interest

The to-be-launch new 777-8X is the coming choice if any airline is looking at this range. EK has been lobbying Boeing hard for the entire 777X products to suit their operations and Boeing is actively listening to them.

[CarbonMan]

The to-be-launch new 777-8X is the coming choice if any airline is looking at this range. EK has been lobbying Boeing hard for the entire 777X products to suit their operations and Boeing is actively listening to them.

And if it can be launched by 2020, I might just be able to enjoy it for a few years before my retirement. I pray EK will be successful in their lobbying and SQ will follow suit. Let's see if there's any official announcement at the Dubai Airshow next month.

[lfc]

And if it can be launched by 2020, I might just be able to enjoy it for a few years before my retirement. I pray EK will be successful in their lobbying and SQ will follow suit. Let's see if there's any official announcement at the Dubai Airshow next month.

Let's certainly hope so! Lufthansa has already commits to get some of the baseline model -9, so it is unlikely this program will not launch. However, can only see the middle east getting the -8 to put themselves within reach of their world domination plan at all cost...

[Durian]

Nice catch with the pic. Very sad though. I have not been following very closely, so sorry if this has been discussed: will there be new capacity/one stop route to EWR to take up the slack? Or will SQ rely solely on FRA-JFK to serve the New York route?

At least this 345 has all 4 engines, unlike this LAN 340 that stayed months in the maintenance hangars area in Changi