Singapore Airlines latest cabin products on the new B777-300ER (77WN) - 2013

[loldude333]

I think in part the replacement will depend on whether there's going to be an A380neo or not. I can see SQ leaning towards the 777-9 if there's no A380neo, since the size might be needed for the flagship/busy routes like SIN-LHR.

But it would take a monumental leap in engine tech for a 4 engined monster like an A380 to compete with a twinjet like the 777-9 in terms of operating economy (of course, the A380 may have more space to do truly luxurious stuff/more seats). What's more, the 777-9's carrying capacity is close (though not equal) to the A380. I'm doubtful that even an A380neo will be able to offer good competition (unless they do 11-a-row seating in Y) to a 777-9.

Given that the market now is all about cost-cutting, especially for SQ, i don't see an A380neo making much sense as the new backbone of the fleet. It seems like SQ intends the A359 (they ordered 67 of these, after all) to be that plane for the next 7-10 years. They may install F on a few of the later planes to sub for the 77Ws.

[Unionruler]

It could well be that SQ is banking on the aviation market only moving further and further towards a point-to-point model, which the A359 excels at economically.

Assuming LON doesn't get anywhere with runway additions (wouldn't surprise me in the least), we might see SQ fly to LGW/BHX eventually.

Of course, maintaining only A359s is terrible for capacity planning, but there are still A380 airframes to be received, and the 773ERs have served as good workhorses as mentioned by several posters. A decision may not be needed for another few years as such.

[loldude333]

Indeed. I'm just wondering around 7 years into the future when the first few 77Ws will probably begin to be retired (the batch from SWU-SNC will probably fly at least another 10 years in SQ colours). There don't appear to be plans to buy more A380s, the A359s don't have the capacity for heavy demand routes like MEL, LHR etc. By that time, the 777X birds will be in service, hence my question.

Whatever it is, it sure will be interesting to see how things develop. It may well be that P2P travel becomes THE thing, in which case SQ will probably thrive. Exciting to see new aircraft being placed into service too!

[leops1984]

But it would take a monumental leap in engine tech for a 4 engined monster like an A380 to compete with a twinjet like the 777-9 in terms of operating economy (of course, the A380 may have more space to do truly luxurious stuff/more seats). What's more, the 777-9's carrying capacity is close (though not equal) to the A380. I'm doubtful that even an A380neo will be able to offer good competition (unless they do 11-a-row seating in Y) to a 777-9.

Given that the market now is all about cost-cutting, especially for SQ, i don't see an A380neo making much sense as the new backbone of the fleet. It seems like SQ intends the A359 (they ordered 67 of these, after all) to be that plane for the next 7-10 years. They may install F on a few of the later planes to sub for the 77Ws.

If Airbus is going to launch the A380neo I assume that the economics of it will be within shouting distance of the 777-9, otherwise it wouldn't get any buyers at all. There are ways the A380 can be improved beyond just a re-engine, the question is whether the development money would be worth it.

SQ is in something of an odd place with the A380neo. They could use it, sure, but their big competitors (EK) would benefit far more from it. They probably don't want it to happen, but if one happened they'd pick up a few themselves. Probably smaller than the existing A380 fleet, even.

A359 is a fine bird, but there will be routes where a bigger plane is needed - either because of the capacity or high premium demand. The question is whether that'll be the 777-9, or some combination of the A380neo and something else. (Perhaps the A350-1000 or the rumored -2000?).

[loldude333]

If Airbus is going to launch the A380neo I assume that the economics of it will be within shouting distance of the 777-9, otherwise it wouldn't get any buyers at all. There are ways the A380 can be improved beyond just a re-engine, the question is whether the development money would be worth it.

SQ is in something of an odd place with the A380neo. They could use it, sure, but their big competitors (EK) would benefit far more from it. They probably don't want it to happen, but if one happened they'd pick up a few themselves. Probably smaller than the existing A380 fleet, even.

A359 is a fine bird, but there will be routes where a bigger plane is needed - either because of the capacity or high premium demand. The question is whether that'll be the 777-9, or some combination of the A380neo and something else. (Perhaps the A350-1000 or the rumored -2000?).

If it happens, an A380neo would be a brilliant way for Rolls-Royce to gain an even bigger stranglehold on the engine market too (assuming Airbus approaches them and makes them the sole manufacturer, like the A330neo and A350). Seems like planemakers are now going with single engine options to optimise performance. Poor old P&W have been left in the dust since their heydays with 747s, 767s and some 777s. Still a big player in the smaller engine markets, but for the big jets they have been overlooked for quite awhile.

I think for the A380neo to succeed, Airbus might have to use a whole new batch of materials to make the plane lighter, redesign the wing and aerodynamics of the body slightly, and new engines to boot. That's a lot of $$$$ and the twinjet due to its 2 fewer engines alone will probably still have a bit of an edge. Will be exciting to see what the manufacturers do!

[alian]

Hmmm ... Talking about A380 and the possibility of an A380neo ... What happen to the A380 LCC variant of 800plus seats? That never materialized and it really puts into question the viability of such high capacity seating configurations.

The only airline I know that seems to be making $$$ out of the A380s so successfully is EK. I think they are coming up or already have some versions with no first class and having Y to make up the space for a seating capacity of 600 plus the highest a380 capacity. They have sooooo many of the a380s and are complaining not enough. They can even fly a380 between Dubai and Kuwait.

However the rest of the industry don't seem to share the same sentiments as EK. Is the A380 successful ? And can it compete in today's air industry ? Load factor seems to be the most compelling factor here and if it's full then the four engines burning will surely outweigh the cost

[leops1984]

I'm not sure if there was ever a serious plan for an 800-seat A380. It's certified for up to 868 passengers, but just about every widebody is certified for more passengers than it'll ever carry. The 77W is certified for up to 550, for example.

EDIT: And they just announced a huge production cut for the A380. The goal is now one a month by 2018 - from more than 2 a month in 2015.

[FN-GM]

The A380 is certified for 800 people, I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to do that if the airlines wanted that.

[chisquared]

The A380 is certified for 800 people, I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to do that if the airlines wanted that.

Not quite. Airlines may well want to, but note that supply is just one side of the market. I'm sure SQ dreams of a sky full of its A380s with 800 passengers on board each.

[FN-GM]

Not quite. Airlines may well want to, but note that supply is just one side of the market. I'm sure SQ dreams of a sky full of its A380s with 800 passengers on board each.

I was meaning more the technical side of things. Finding 800 people to fit on the plane is another matter!

[SQfanatic]

From airlineroute:

Singapore Airlines from 23OCT16 is increasing capacity on Singapore – Hong Kong route, as overall Airbus A380 operation increases from 1 to 2 daily. SQ866/865 will be operated by A380, instead of 777-300ER. SIA operates this route 7 times a day.

SQ890 SIN0735 – 1120HKG 772 D
SQ860 SIN0825 – 1225HKG 388 D
SQ856 SIN0955 – 1355HKG 333 D
SQ866 SIN1305 – 1705HKG 388 D
SQ872 SIN1505 – 1850HKG 772 D
SQ002 SIN1830 – 2215HKG 77W D
SQ868 SIN1955 – 2340HKG 772 D

SQ001 HKG0800 – 1200SIN 77W D
SQ857 HKG0905 – 1305SIN 772 D
SQ891 HKG1230 – 1630SIN 772 D
SQ863 HKG1410 – 1810SIN 388 D
SQ861 HKG1545 – 1945SIN 333 D
SQ865 HKG1850 – 2250SIN 388 D
SQ871 HKG1955 – 2355SIN 772 D

866/865 loses the 77WR in October. Looks like the more 77WR being freed up, looks like they seem unwilling to refit any more plane to 77WR!

[jaywell]

Looks like the more 77WR being freed up, looks like they seem unwilling to refit any more plane to 77WR!

I don't think PEY is doing as well as SQ expected, hence why as of right now the 777-300ER refits have stopped. I'm predicting that SQ will refit the remaining planes to the 77WN configuration, or just leave them as is.

On a separate note, how are the WiFi refits coming along? How many 77Ws are now equipped with WiFi?

[iancasillas]

I don't think PEY is doing as well as SQ expected, hence why as of right now the 777-300ER refits have stopped. I'm predicting that SQ will refit the remaining planes to the 77WN configuration, or just leave them as is.

On a separate note, how are the WiFi refits coming along? How many 77Ws are now equipped with WiFi?

77WN is good! Can't really be bothered with PEY at the current price point.

[alian]

77WN is good! Can't really be bothered with PEY at the current price point.

My support on this.

[Jumbojet Lover]

There don't appear to be plans to buy more A380s, the A359s don't have the capacity for heavy demand routes like MEL, LHR etc. By that time, the 777X birds will be in service, hence my question

SQ has options for more A350s, and it could select the A350-1000 variant as a replacement for 77W.