LH/TK relationship sours

[inkoherent]

Not all is well in Star-land: http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...ommercial-rift

[scooby5]

How is this happening? It is partly because of keen pricing but also because the big European airlines neglect their secondary airports in favour of concentrating their operations at one or two hubs. It's a policy that works to the detriment of travellers who live and work in the regions.

In Germany, almost all Lufthansa long-haul flights depart from Frankfurt or Munich. So travellers based in major cities like Cologne, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin and Stuttgart feel neglected.

This bit I found misleading.

In Germany it is the case of long hauls leaving from either Frankfurt or Munich. In the UK it is London and to a lesser extent Manchester. In France, Paris etc. etc. etc.

In Turkey, it is Istanbul.

It is just the nature of flying long hauls and the principle behind Boeing's introduction of the 787 that was, in theory, to open up a more varied long haul map competing with the A380 that is completely hub-centric.

For me, it comes down to price and TK is doing a better job on service than LH.

[MAN Flyer]

First it's EK's fault now it's TK's. Must be something to do with the letter K...

Nothing to do with p*ssing of large swathes of their top tier frequent fliers in the last 12-18 months of course.....

[demue]

Aehm but they made so many "enhancements", how could anyone be upset by getting their benefits reduced and then being told it tastes ahh sooo "sweet". Not only did they sc*ew us, but also insult us by feeding us those platitudes.

[SQ228]

I would see two factors here. Lufthansa onboard service on longhauls is awful (even if you ask politely in German) and their interior fit-out leaves a lot to be desired compared to other airlines. They don't even offer a choice of meals in Y most of the time. Here's food- now eat it while your seat rattles around even in mild turbulence and stare at the blank screen because your IFE isn't working. Yeah, great way to win customers over...

The other factor which needs to be understood is that unlike France, the UK, Austria etc, Germany is more significantly decentralised. That is to say, the difference in population between London and Manchester or Paris and Marseille respectively, is far more pronounced than between German cities.

Frankfurt as a "metropolis" has a population less than 6 million, whereas Düsseldorf as the capital of the Rhein-Ruhr metropolis has double this. Hamburg's metro population is almost as large as Frankfurt, whereas Munich is actually not a particularly large metropolis at all. Much of Frankfurt's air traffic dominance is due to it being roughly central within the former West Germany, developing a strategic finance sector creating a high demand for C-cabins, while Berlin remained in limbo with Lufthansa disallowed by East Germany to fly through its airspace. West Germans wishing to fly to West Berlin had to take foreign carriers such as BA or AF.

Perhaps LH should have considered more reliance on more B777 type aircraft leaving from a range of ports than trying to funnel all their passengers onto a single A380 out of FRA, which is exactly what they have done with SIN flights. It leaves their own market ripe for picking by other carriers like TK. SQ still flies direct between MUC and SIN, and quite profitably it seems now that LH have cut this route previously served by their tatty old A343s. When the new BER airport finally opens, one wonders how much of a presence LH will bother having there.

[NoChanceToDance]

I would see two factors here. Lufthansa onboard service on longhauls is awful (even if you ask politely in German) and their interior fit-out leaves a lot to be desired compared to other airlines. They don't even offer a choice of meals in Y most of the time. Here's food- now eat it while your seat rattles around even in mild turbulence and stare at the blank screen because your IFE isn't working. Yeah, great way to win customers over...

The other factor which needs to be understood is that unlike France, the UK, Austria etc, Germany is more significantly decentralised. That is to say, the difference in population between London and Manchester or Paris and Marseille respectively, is far more pronounced than between German cities.

Frankfurt as a "metropolis" has a population less than 6 million, whereas Düsseldorf as the capital of the Rhein-Ruhr metropolis has double this. Hamburg's metro population is almost as large as Frankfurt, whereas Munich is actually not a particularly large metropolis at all. Much of Frankfurt's air traffic dominance is due to it being roughly central within the former West Germany, developing a strategic finance sector creating a high demand for C-cabins, while Berlin remained in limbo with Lufthansa disallowed by East Germany to fly through its airspace. West Germans wishing to fly to West Berlin had to take foreign carriers such as BA or AF.

Perhaps LH should have considered more reliance on more B777 type aircraft leaving from a range of ports than trying to funnel all their passengers onto a single A380 out of FRA, which is exactly what they have done with SIN flights. It leaves their own market ripe for picking by other carriers like TK. SQ still flies direct between MUC and SIN, and quite profitably it seems now that LH have cut this route previously served by their tatty old A343s. When the new BER airport finally opens, one wonders how much of a presence LH will bother having there.

Could not agree more with regard to the quality of the two airlines. LH seem to have become almost complacent over recent years and just assumed they would be the biggest airline in mainland Europe. Their products (both Y and J) are awful, no point beating around the bush, add to that they are usually more expensive than most, and it's not surprising people are looking elsewhere.

The other side of the coin is TK being very proactive in the market, moving upwards very swiftly and giving what the customer wants, and at reasonable prices. They look almost certain to become the first airline to provide direct flights from Europe to Australia and you have to think that will have some impact on LH FRA-SIN flights.

We always talk about German efficiency, but it seems at this stage that LH are being efficient about having no new ideas.

[Lstieger]

Could not agree more with regard to the quality of the two airlines. LH seem to have become almost complacent over recent years and just assumed they would be the biggest airline in mainland Europe. Their products (both Y and J) are awful, no point beating around the bush, add to that they are usually more expensive than most, and it's not surprising people are looking elsewhere.

The other side of the coin is TK being very proactive in the market, moving upwards very swiftly and giving what the customer wants, and at reasonable prices. They look almost certain to become the first airline to provide direct flights from Europe to Australia and you have to think that will have some impact on LH FRA-SIN flights.

We always talk about German efficiency, but it seems at this stage that LH are being efficient about having no new ideas.

I totally agree with you. I generally fly back for Christmas Singapore-> Instanbul->Geneva and in both Business and Economy their service is really outstanding compared to Lufthansa. I would say that it's the small details that make the difference.