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ANA plane flips and nose dive - Sep 6

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  • ANA plane flips and nose dive - Sep 6

    Can an expert tell me what the normal function of the "rudder trim knob" is?

    ANA incident flips air industry on its head
    The Yomiuri Shimbun

    An incident earlier this month in which an All Nippon Airways aircraft briefly flew virtually upside down after a copilot mistakenly operated a key steering mechanism has sent shock waves across the aviation industry.

    "It's usually impossible for a passenger airplane to fly in such a position," one source familiar with the industry said. "It could have led to a serious accident."

    The Transport Safety Board said Wednesday that ANA Flight 140, operated by ANA's group company Air Nippon, was on the verge of stalling after nosediving about 1,900 meters in 30 seconds on Sept. 6. The aircraft, carrying 117 passengers and crew members, was en route to Haneda Airport after departing from Naha.

    According to the safety board, an analysis of the aircraft's digital flight recorder indicated that the copilot, alone in the cockpit at the time as the captain used a restroom, mistakenly turned the rudder trim knob twice to the left for a total of 10 seconds.

    The copilot apparently mistook the knob for the cockpit door lock switch as he tried to let the captain back in. The mistake is believed to have caused the airplane to tilt leftward and descend rapidly.

    According to ANA, its aircraft usually tilt no more than 30 degrees when they roll, with the craft's nose pointing up no more than 20 degrees and pointing down no more than 10 degrees. In the Sept. 6 incident, however, the aircraft rolled left and briefly reached a tilt of 131.7 degrees. Its nose pointed down 35 degrees at one point, the safety board also said.

    "The figures are unbelievable, even in a case that requires such an urgent maneuver to avert a risk," a source close to ANA said.

    It was also revealed Wednesday that a stick shaker, a mechanical device to warn pilots of an aircraft's imminent stall, was activated in the incident, indicating the ANA flight faced the risk of stalling.

    On Sept. 7, the day following the incident, ANA discovered after analyzing flight data that the airplane had been at risk of stalling and had flown virtually upside down. However, the company failed to make it public.

    ANA informed the media on the evening of Sept. 7 that it was still investigating the incident.

    At a press conference Wednesday night after the safety board's announcement, Shin Nagase, a senior executive vice president of ANA, said: "We had no intention to cover up [the incident]. We couldn't explain it, because it was being investigated by the transport safety board."

  • #2
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tab

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    • #3
      Thanks, Sealalula. According to Gizmodo, this is the actual layout of the rudder trimming knob (the big one on the left) on a 737. The door switch is on the right. What interests me is the function of the knob. I've always understood that the rudder is controlled by the foot pedals - so why is there a need for a rudder knob? Apologies for a very layman question.

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      • #4
        And for any of us who is interested in what the plane actually did, you can watch the simulated video of the manoeuvre at Yomiuri's website. It is quite shocking what one simple knob can do.

        http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/stream/m_news/vn110928_6.htm

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        • #5
          Thats one very dangerous knob indeed If one turn the knob too much, like what happened in the incident, the rudder would stall to the left. Hence, the plane will bank uncontrollably.

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          • #6
            Trim = Imagine you are in co-ordinated, straight and level flight. To achieve this you are having to apply consistent right rudder - i.e. right pedal down a bit. This is a pain, quite literally after a while. Trim allows you to relieve this pressure by manually "setting" a control surface to "remember" a position so that you no longer need the continuous control pressure.

            Elevator or pitch trim is the most useful, and will be constantly adjusted either manually or via auto trim in later airbus models in normal and alternate laws. Rudder and aileron trim is still useful, but not something generally adjusted all the time, assuming a reasonably well rigged aircraft.

            Good job to the FO for recovering this. New pants for the Captain I imagine.

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            • #7
              Well something still amuses me. The autopilot should be activated as the aircraft was crusing. How is it possible for turning of a small knob dis-engage the autopilot. Even if it did not dis-engage the autopilot, the autopilot should have been able to counter the extreme left banking.

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              • #8
                It's safer, generally, for the AP to disconnect in an abnormal trim situation. Many fatal accidents have been caused by interaction between manually trimming the aircraft and the autopilot.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mr_botak View Post
                  Trim = Imagine you are in co-ordinated, straight and level flight. To achieve this you are having to apply consistent right rudder - i.e. right pedal down a bit. This is a pain, quite literally after a while. Trim allows you to relieve this pressure by manually "setting" a control surface to "remember" a position so that you no longer need the continuous control pressure.

                  Elevator or pitch trim is the most useful, and will be constantly adjusted either manually or via auto trim in later airbus models in normal and alternate laws. Rudder and aileron trim is still useful, but not something generally adjusted all the time, assuming a reasonably well rigged aircraft.
                  Thanks, Mr Botak for this explanation. I think I get the gist of the knob's function now. Since the inadvertent mishandling of this knob can cause such a radical maneuver, (I'm entering into sensitive ground here), could something like this have caused the Silkair 185 crash? If not, what are the differences in both situations?

                  Good job to the FO for recovering this. New pants for the Captain I imagine.
                  While all pilots make mistakes (since they are human), I do hope that the FO will not loose his job as a result of this incident, as you mentioned, he did pull the plane back up. As for the Captain, yes, I think he would've had the need to go visit the toilet again.

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                  • #10
                    Interesting thought on MI185. We'll never know for sure, but trimming to the stop would produce the same result as a hardover, albeit slower.

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                    • #11
                      Well something still amuses me. The autopilot should be activated as the aircraft was crusing. How is it possible for turning of a small knob dis-engage the autopilot. Even if it did not dis-engage the autopilot, the autopilot should have been able to counter the extreme left banking.
                      AP would self disconnect when it faces a maneuver that is beyond its ability to correct e.g extreme maneuver.

                      Since the inadvertent mishandling of this knob can cause such a radical maneuver, (I'm entering into sensitive ground here), could something like this have caused the Silkair 185 crash? If not, what are the differences in both situations?
                      That is an interesting thought indeed. If a hardover was caused by an accidental rudder trim input, it could be corrected if the aircraft had altitude to spare. Just my two cents.

                      And if you are implying that the crew of MI185 could have mistaken the door lock tab to rudder trim tab, it wouldn't have happened as the flight deck doors could only be locked electronically post 9/11.

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                      • #12
                        scary.. reminds me of that Aeroflot crash in 1994.. it was just a few months before my first flight when I was a kid and scared the hell out of me when I watched it on the news.

                        The plane tiled and went into a nosedive when the control column was turned left. Unfortunately they didnt realise it but all the crew had to do was release the control column they were struggling to control and the plane would have stabilized itself

                        Air Crash Investigation/Mayday covered it very well. Here's the first part of the episode

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                        • #13
                          I remember watching the news about it on NHK . Tried searching the web for more news about it and alas after a few days , i find it here

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