Sneak Peek: BA New F

[Kiwi]

Looks more like planting a new Club World seat into the existing spaces in the 747.
Is BA still planning to cram 14 passengers into the nose?

Yes. NZ has 14 C seats in the nose.

[Lobster]

I actually think BA have got it right with keeping 14 seats in F. From a business point of view it makes sense to get more revenue and be able to keep flexibility on pricing. For an F passenger it is much more about privacy in your seat than actual number of other F passengers and the BA F seat angling towards the window as it does is one of the most private F seats I have experienced. Yes to fit 14 seats in it has to be smaller but the fact is that the seat is big enough, I have never sat in BA F thinking the seat is too small (where as I did sit on an SQ 77W thinking the seat was too wide).

Anyway we still need to wait to see what the actual new BA F will look like as these pictures are only a mock up to give an impression.

[Kiwi]

From a business point of view it makes sense to get more revenue and be able to keep flexibility on pricing.

Those two points are somewhat contradictory. A smaller cabin provides more flexibility than a larger one. When times are good a larger (with respect to number of seats not floor area) cabin should provide more revenue. It may not necessarily though.

[kt74]

Those two points are somewhat contradictory. A smaller cabin provides more flexibility than a larger one. When times are good a larger (with respect to number of seats not floor area) cabin should provide more revenue. It may not necessarily though.

So, let's compare then. The TG F cabin, 10 (admittedly nice) seats and zero privacy (the front row of C stares right at you as you use the toilet). Compared with the BA F cabin, 14 seats, maybe marginally inferior beds, but certainly a lot more privacy. Same space, used better

Of course BA's 14 seats are more flexible! Even if it doesn't provide more revenue, they could choose to upgrade high status pax or whatever

[Kiwi]

It is much easier to sell a few more economy fares than to sell extra F seats. Thus smaller premium cabin (and larger economy cabin) is more flexible, I think.

[Lobster]

It is much easier to fill Y seats but not as profitable and also as we are, talking about F taking up a fixed area then there are not more Y seats made available by reducing the number of seats in F.

What having more seats does is give you more flexibilty in pricing to under cut your comepetitors. If the cost of operating a 10 seat F cabin is $50,000 then your lowest price without making a loss is $5,000 if you can fill all the seats. If the cost of operating a 14 seat cabin is $60,000 then you can charge $4,500 basically a 10% discount on your competitors price and still make a profit.

[Kiwi]

But can you get away with charging 90% of fare for 70% of the space?

(Sorry for the rounding SQFG.)

[kt74]

It is much easier to sell a few more economy fares than to sell extra F seats. Thus smaller premium cabin (and larger economy cabin) is more flexible, I think.

A 747 nose is what it is. You may as well use it to maximum effect. Unless you think BA should replace the rear 4 seats with some more Y seats?

But can you get away with charging 90% of fare for 70% of the space?

Is TG's F worth an 11% premium over BA?

[Russ]

Still better than LH's 4 x 4 abreast on the upper deck of a 744. Yeah, they removed the bins to make the seats seem wider but the foldable privacy screens do absolutely nothing as the seat back only goes a few inches below the screens - when I did FRA JNB last month on LH F (I was op-uped), the guy next to me actually ended up (not intentionally) putting his hand into my area during his sleep. SQ C Spacebeds or QF C Skybeds have more privacy than LH F.

I find the SQ New First and New Business too wide - don't know where to rest my arm....

Problem with BA is service and attitude....

[flo]

my gut tells me that the pictures don't show the actual new seats. these are definitely photoshop mockups and i am not sure if we're getting the new product here after all.

[Kiwi]

It's an investor presentation for a product that isn't yet ready to be rolled out, so of course it is a mock up.