How many DSLR users here?

[stargold]

You can see the GF1 side by side with the LX3 here, i.e. without a lens, it's only about 15% bigger than the LX3.

I saw that pic... but with other lenses it might be a fair bit bigger, which was my concern. But I suppose perhaps it's better to at least have the choice of adding bulk and obtaining longer reach rather than being restricted to the 60mm on the LX3?

Exactly (except that I don't own a single DSLR - I only have a film Canon 5QD)! A DSLR is overkill for my purposes (holiday/airport/lounge snaps!) but I like the sound of (apparently) entry-level DSLR quality from a Micro Four Thirds camera compared to the poorer camera performance of a Canon G10 (soon to be G11) or Panasonic LX3.

Oh? I didn't realise you don't use a DSLR!

LX3 and G10 are completely fine (great, in fact) in certain controlled environments (plenty of light, no subject movement, no need for a wide DR, etc) but as soon as any of those conditions become less than ideal, I found that I started missing a DSLR very quickly.

One such example is taking photos of people in restaurants or pubs. Missed focus (even with face detection) and dodgy exposure decisions are all too common which, combined with the ISO disaster, makes for a very unrewarding photography experience... (I perhaps make things harder for myself with my absolute hatred for flash!)

I think the shutter sound is rather sexy! I've been hearing it all over the place when sight-seeing. I'd turn around and it's a Nikon! *sigh*

Oh dear.. You're sounding more and more like a love-struck teenager day by day! But I agree, the shutter sound is just so... spot on! No doubt they spent ages refining the shutter sound profile when developing the mech.

For a glimpse into the near-"otaku"-ness that goes into developing a Nikon flagship body, the following interview regarding the development of the Nikon F6 (final film body, released in 2004!) is a fascinating read.

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/im...e/09/index.htm

[Kyo]

jhm, give the platform time to mature unless you absolutely can't stand waiting now

For me, I'm going to skip the first and second generation products... after that, we'll also have a better idea about its success and place in the market.

Whilst I do regret not being able to take a DSLR with me everywhere I go, I'm comforted by the fact the Ixus 980 won't require me having spinal surgery later on.

[jhm]

One such example is taking photos of people in restaurants or pubs.

I was thinking more of food shots! I'm not a photographer but my impression is that ideally I need two lenses (which is why Micro Four Thirds - with its better low light performance - sounds interesting compared to a compact):

* A lens for walking around - general holiday snaps when the lighting should be okay. Perhaps even a fixed focus small pancake lens like the Panasonic 20mm (equivalent to 40mm on 35mm) F1.7 lens which comes with the GF1 which does not increase the size of the camera significantly.

* A longer lens for closeups of food shots (dark restaurants or plane cabins) - I don't know how the other lens launched with the GF1 will perform ? It's a 14-45mm (equivalent to 28-90mm on 35mm) F3.5-5.6 lens.

jhm, give the platform time to mature unless you absolutely can't stand waiting now

I'm thinking I need a camera to record all the food which I'm going to eat in Osaka for almost a fortnight (Seoul too but that's only 1 night) next month so I can look lovingly at the pictures when I get home!

[SQTalker]

Canon 7D & G11 will be out soon...

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09...canoneos7d.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081908canong11.asp

[stargold]

jhm, give the platform time to mature unless you absolutely can't stand waiting now

For me, I'm going to skip the first and second generation products... after that, we'll also have a better idea about its success and place in the market.

Thing is, the G1 and GH1 has already proven itself to be very, very capable performers. Despite having a smaller sensor, the ISO performance is absolutely comparable with Nikon D5000 and Canon EOS 500D, for example. Other aspects of image quality also seem to be spot on.

GF1 is just an evolution of an existing line (G1/GH1) so I wouldn't call it first-generation anymore. In addition, it's just one of those products that I am very confident of its success, due to the niche that has been waiting to be satisfied for a long time.

Whilst I do regret not being able to take a DSLR with me everywhere I go, I'm comforted by the fact the Ixus 980 won't require me having spinal surgery later on.

The GF1 with any of their lenses also won't require you to have spinal surgery later on, and I think it's exactly this point that is so attractive about the m4/3 format. Yes, it's a fair bit bigger than the usual compacts, but it's close enough in terms of IQ to the big boys that the small tradeoffs in both size and absolute IQ are worthwhile.

I was thinking more of food shots! I'm not a photographer but my impression is that ideally I need two lenses (which is why Micro Four Thirds - with its better low light performance - sounds interesting compared to a compact):

* A lens for walking around - general holiday snaps when the lighting should be okay. Perhaps even a fixed focus small pancake lens like the Panasonic 20mm (equivalent to 40mm on 35mm) F1.7 lens which comes with the GF1 which does not increase the size of the camera significantly.

* A longer lens for closeups of food shots (dark restaurants or plane cabins) - I don't know how the other lens launched with the GF1 will perform ? It's a 14-45mm (equivalent to 28-90mm on 35mm) F3.5-5.6 lens.

I agree with the choices, but I actually think the two roles are reversed.

f/1.7 will obviously be greatly appreciated when there is less than perfect light, i.e. restaurants or aircraft cabins, and the zoom range is less important in those situations.

When on walkabout, I think you're more likely to want the zoom range to accommodate different types of shots, and you're likely to have more light which will counter the slower lens brightness.

I'm thinking I need a camera to record all the food which I'm going to eat in Osaka for almost a fortnight (Seoul too but that's only 1 night) next month so I can look lovingly at the pictures when I get home!

I do that sometimes, and I can tell you it's definitely not a healthy habit! Each time I look at pics from my NH F flight food or the seafood Chinese dinner in Singapore, I am instantly hungry and have to look for snacks that are - obviously - nothing like what I've been looking at.

[jhm]

Decisions, decisions...

I've been pondering whether for more flexibility (which I like but I may never end up using ), should I get the following:

Nikon D3000 (AFAIK the lightest Nikon DSLR - 536g)
Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-S (290g)
a cheap/light zoom, e.g. the 18-55 kit lens (which becomes a 27-82 for 35mm) which comes with the D3000

rather than the GF1 (w/pancake 40mm 35mm equivalent lens) at half the weight, i.e. 448g ?

[stargold]

Decisions, decisions...

I've been pondering whether for more flexibility (which I like but I may never end up using ), should I get the following:

Nikon D3000 (AFAIK the lightest Nikon DSLR - 536g)
Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-S (290g)
a cheap/light zoom, e.g. the 18-55 kit lens (which becomes a 27-82 for 35mm) which comes with the D3000

rather than the GF1 (w/pancake 40mm 35mm equivalent lens) at half the weight, i.e. 448g ?

If you're not likely to take advantage of the vast range of bodies and lenses etc of the Nikon system (i.e. unlikely to upgrade into better bodies and lenses), then there isn't really any compelling reason to choose Nikon over Panasonic, given that the entry-level IQ seems identical (or even slightly better on the Pana)

In particular, given that you're looking for small size and lightness, I would suggest buying a GF1 first from somewhere with a generous returns policy (i.e. John Lewis or Jessops) and decide whether you want to keep it.

[jhm]

The voice of reason! You're right. I will carry on waiting for the GF1 (whenever it's released - Amazon says 23 Sept but shops I spoke to did not seem sure) rather than the Nikon which could be in my hands tomorrow...

[sabian]

I have been following this thread for a while. A DSLR is an overkill for what I need.

Currently have a Fuji F30 and the results are good enough for me, especially when I am indoors. Would a prosumer (with 10x zoom) be a good alternative if I am not keen on lugging gear around on a trip?

I have been searching around forums and open to the idea of a pre-owned set. Is the Fuji6500fd a decent bet?

[jhm]

pondering whether for more flexibility

I see that Canon and Nikon both do a 18-200 zoom! They're not full frame but still, one of these lenses plus perhaps a fast 50 for low light should be all that's required for general purpose travel!

I realise that there are compact super zooms - e.g. the Panasonic TZ7 with a 35mm equivalent of 25-300mm - but they may have problems with noise and/or autofocus when it's dark.

[stargold]

A Nikon or Canon body with an 18-200 is really by no means small...! Not quite a full kit bag's worth, but hardly pocket-able (at least not without the embarrassing "Is that a DSLR with 18-200mm in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?" questions )

[phaleesy]

I see that Canon and Nikon both do a 18-200 zoom! They're not full frame but still, one of these lenses plus perhaps a fast 50 for low light should be all that's required for general purpose travel!

I realise that there are compact super zooms - e.g. the Panasonic TZ7 with a 35mm equivalent of 25-300mm - but they may have problems with noise and/or autofocus when it's dark.

Lugging a SLR system around requires a lot of commitment. I would not recommend it unless you're serious about capturing the perfect shot. A compact is good enough for food (in macro mode) and plane interior photos, and that's what I use.

Why'd you need to buy one anyway? I've got two Ixus lying around! If you do want to get one, please try to get one which shoots RAW too, so I can 'borrow'.

Speaking of Nikon... The guy with the Nikon managed to get that shot of the giant leatherback turtle. Those with the Canon 5D (mark I - me and mark II - some random guy) could not!

[SQflyergirl]

"Is that a DSLR with 18-200mm in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?" questions )

i take it you've had the experience of being asked that?

[jhm]

Of course I'm serious about capturing the perfect shot!

If you do want to get one, please try to get one which shoots RAW too, so I can 'borrow'.

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I AGREE

Adobe have released RAW support in PS and Lightroom for the GF1 already!

Amazon UK said today but now it shows as out of stock with availability at a later undetermined date.

The only flaw so far - as pointed out here - seems to be the lack of a viewfinder. You have to add an attachment (an electronic viewfinder) to the flash hotshoe but that destroys the camera's compact dimensions. It's okay if you like using a LCD screen but I don't.

[phaleesy]

Is that a DSLR with 18-200mm in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?" questions )

i take it you've had the experience of being asked that?

I think Stargold has an interesting story to share with us!

I would find it impossible to squeeze a SLR or any compact into a trouser pocket. However, it is possible to carry a Canon D400 with a EFS18-55 in a coat or ski jacket. People would just think you have a larger chest on one side.