Changi delays

[lingua101]

I don't think you can *see* a congestion on the arrival side, since the flights are all stacked up in the air ... unless one is air traffic control. Even pax on the plane may not be quite aware unless the pilot announces it prior to landing.

And of course, we have to define what congestion is. To me, a simple pax, it is when a plane needs to wait even though it is ready to take off. And the severity of it is measured by the time the plane needs to wait.

I mean if there is congestion, then I should see more frequent flight to land right? not like in almost 5 minutes interval

[flying.monkeyz]

There's really not much congestion at 9pm NORMALLY, unless there were some build-up of traffic due to airspace / runway closure or weather. We tend to see more congestion for departures especially during morning.

One thing I'm rather puzzled is that some airport practices regular intersection departures to ease the waiting time and taxiway congestion, and WSSS is not doing that. Surely those fully-loaded A320s / B737s / ATR72s do not require 4000m TORA. Anyway my 2 cents...

[Kyo]

There's really not much congestion at 9pm NORMALLY, unless there were some build-up of traffic due to airspace / runway closure or weather. We tend to see more congestion for departures especially during morning.

One thing I'm rather puzzled is that some airport practices regular intersection departures to ease the waiting time and taxiway congestion, and WSSS is not doing that. Surely those fully-loaded A320s / B737s / ATR72s do not require 4000m TORA. Anyway my 2 cents...

My last few flights departing at exactly 9pm (including the most recent one last Friday on TG410) were massively delayed on takeoff.

We spent 55 minutes on the ground, ridiculous and only got to my BKK hotel 10 mins after midnight, Changi's tower control can't be taken seriously anymore...

[alberttky]

My last few flights departing at exactly 9pm (including the most recent one last Friday on TG410) were massively delayed on takeoff.

We spent 55 minutes on the ground, ridiculous and only got to my BKK hotel 10 mins after midnight, Changi's tower control can't be taken seriously anymore...

Interesting that CAAS imposes penalties on service providers / ground handlers for delays / long queues / shortcomings... wonder if anyone is penalizing them for congestion on runways...

[flyguy]

just think of the airlines' planes spending on average 25 mins from push-back bec of the "congestion" and burning up thousands of litres of jet fuel - must have costs a few million due to the recent "
changi "congestion" which does not do well for changi's supposedly efficiency.

[CarbonMan]

just think of the airlines' planes spending on average 25 mins from push-back bec of the "congestion" and burning up thousands of litres of jet fuel - must have costs a few million due to the recent "
changi "congestion" which does not do well for changi's supposedly efficiency.

Yes! (Though the oil producers will jump for joy). But importantly, Apax running out of reading material without switching on his iPad.

[MAN Flyer]

Almost an hour late coming up to KL on MI this morning. That's all four flights so far this month from Changi that have been delayed. I wonder if they can make it five tonight...

This is going to start becoming a serious issue if they don't sort it out quick, with that fabulous reputation they've built over the years in danger of being spoiled.

[mr_botak]

And I note another passenger record broken. Can't believe I'm suggesting this but maybe CAAS should come to LHR to get some help. Same number of runways, often terrible weather, hugely more productive.

[MAN Flyer]

And I note another passenger record broken. Can't believe I'm suggesting this but maybe CAAS should come to LHR to get some help. Same number of runways, often terrible weather, hugely more productive.

As daft as that may sound, it's an indication of how the current 'system', whatever it is, isn't working.

They certainly need to look at how they use the runways better. My flight to BNE last week we doors closed a good 5 mins before departure time then sat for 10-15 minutes before the captain came on and gave the standard 'unfortunately it's rush hour at Changi (wish I had a few quid every time I have heard that recently)....so we have been informed we will have a push back time of 15 minutes from now'. When we did push back, despite the fact we were at the high A gates that they like to put the Oz A330's at the moment, and thus close to the start of the Westerly runway (sorry, don't do runway numbers..), which had zero aircraft waiting to take off, we pushed back and taxied over the south cross all the way to the other runway, and queued for another 10-15 minutes with all the other aircraft.

Now, I am sure there are very good reasons why they are doing this, but whatever it is it needs looking at as the current system with all these delays cannot continue. It's no point bragging about increases in passengers using SIN if it's causing delays all the time. LHR is stuck as it is prevented from dual mode use of the runways (well, they have just been given a trial exemption under certain criteria) and simply has to switch landing/take off runways mid afternoon to give certain residents a break, but Changi doesn't have this restriction.

Maybe Runway 3 and Terminal 4 need to be sorted earlier than they envisaged.

[ycp81]

From what I know, Changi do have some noise restrictions regarding the use of Rwy02L/20R for takeoff. That is why the runway is mainly used for landings so as to minimize noise "pollution" to the nearby residential areas in Changi. After midnight, thrust reversers are not to be used / minimize usage during landing too to avoid "disturbing" the sleeping residents.

[9V-SIA]

Maybe Runway 3 and Terminal 4 need to be sorted earlier than they envisaged.

Adding a fourth terminal without a third runway would be pointless.

It'll just make the queues to take off longer!

As mr_botak has highlighted, I wonder why LHR with two runways operates more efficiently..

[CarbonMan]

As mr_botak has highlighted, I wonder why LHR with two runways operates more efficiently..

Yes, if a member of this site who has a close association to air traffic control at Changi can help explain; it would help educate us a bit here.

[MAN Flyer]

From what I know, Changi do have some noise restrictions regarding the use of Rwy02L/20R for takeoff. That is why the runway is mainly used for landings so as to minimize noise "pollution" to the nearby residential areas in Changi. After midnight, thrust reversers are not to be used / minimize usage during landing too to avoid "disturbing" the sleeping residents.

That's fair enough. However in January alone I have been delayed at least half an hour on:

TG404 to BKK @ 12:25
SQ245 to BNE @ 09:30
MI322 to KUL @ 10:15

No sleep to disturb at those times.

Each time we pushed back late and then queued up with a lot of other aircraft (compared to earlier times at Changi) on one runway while the other one was used exclusively for landings. This is Changi, not LHR where they have to do it that way. I fully accept there might be reasons for doing it the way they do, at least I hope so. However, whatever reasons there might be need looking at as it is now clearly causing problems.

On the subject of LHR the IFS I mentioned ranting up thread did also say it's a good job the Changi controllers are not working at Heathrow.

Adding a fourth terminal without a third runway would be pointless.

It'll just make the queues to take off longer!

True, but the runway is not a problem as it is already built, more or less. T4 hasn't even been started yet, even though they know where it's going.

[ycp81]

Considering the number of departures scheduled during the morning peak period (info from Changi website for pax and freighters),

0700-0759: 32 departures
0800-0859: 32 departures
0900-0959: 34 departures
1000-1059: 22 departures

and the rest of the day averaging between 20-30 departures per hour till midnight, it is little wonder just using one runway for takeoff (assuming at 2 minutes intervals) causes such a congestion.

[9V-SIA]

In an earlier post, Nick C has a reason for our woes..

an additional runway won't solve anything. this is due to airspace congestion.

therefore based on your school of thought, we probably need to buy more airspace.