2 SQ Capts on Local terms sacked for refusing A330 conversion.

[FN-GM]

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...onversion.html

An interesting thread on another forum.

[hybridace101]

I may be wrong here but learning to fly an Airbus flight deck should be easier. Easier in the sense that if you know how to operate the flight deck of an A330, you can operate the flight deck of other modern Airbus jets. Unlike Boeing where you have to learn a new flight deck everytime.

[FN-GM]

I am under the same impression. The Flightdecks have are very similar layout.

[boing]

Originally Posted by hybridace101

I may be wrong here but learning to fly an Airbus flight deck should be easier. Easier in the sense that if you know how to operate the flight deck of an A330, you can operate the flight deck of other modern Airbus jets. Unlike Boeing where you have to learn a new flight deck everytime.

It's quite true. The A320, A330 and A340 have very similiar cockpit layouts leading the transition time from one fleet to another to be shortened. The A380 has minor and subtle diffs to the cockpit layout.And in any case, CAAS does not allow cross-fleet flying.

I think there's more to this issue than meets the eye. I would assume the posting to the A330 to be a losing proposition as the A330 is mainly a medium to short haul fleet leading to a decrease in flight allowances compared to a long haul fleet.

Just my two cents.

[B727]

Originally Posted by boing

I would assume the posting to the A330 to be a losing proposition as the A330 is mainly a medium to short haul fleet leading to a decrease in flight allowances compared to a long haul fleet

That could be the reason. I've always thought those 333s were brought in to take over from 777s on short to medium routes that are seeing less demand as a result of the global crisis, increased competition from other carriers, etc.

[hybridace101]

The case you outlined is possible. A supposedly "easier" aircraft to fly may mean less prominence and a slap on the pilot's pride. Although the only Boeings that exist in the fleet are the 744 and the 777s with the former on its way out.

Having said that, the A330s are flying some of SQ's high-yield routes such as in Australia and Japan.

When the CAAS doesn't allow cross-fleet flying does it mean they won't automatically certify you to fly an A340 even if you experienced an A320 or A330?

[astroboy]

Originally Posted by hybridace101

The case you outlined is possible. A supposedly "easier" aircraft to fly may mean less prominence and a slap on the pilot's pride. Although the only Boeings that exist in the fleet are the 744 and the 777s with the former on its way out.

Having said that, the A330s are flying some of SQ's high-yield routes such as in Australia and Japan.

When the CAAS doesn't allow cross-fleet flying does it mean they won't automatically certify you to fly an A340 even if you experienced an A320 or A330?

In a word, yes.

[boing]

Originally Posted by hybridace101

The case you outlined is possible. A supposedly "easier" aircraft to fly may mean less prominence and a slap on the pilot's pride. Although the only Boeings that exist in the fleet are the 744 and the 777s with the former on its way out.

I didn't mean that. I was speaking from a financial point of view, it's the shorter end of the stick. And there's no difference in the difficulty level in flying an Airbus or a Boeing. All the a/cs have modern avionics and FBW. Any difference, if any, is negligible. B741 or B707, now that is a challenge for most new school pilots.

[flyguy]

one thing is that PPRUNE may not be entirely true n give it a benefit of a doubt as there have been instances of mis-information but given its more a "pilot rumour" site - but if its true than the pilots must have their own personal reason for turning the conversion down. Also note that altho SQ have leased the A333s but its for the interim only as these A333s will go when the A350s come into service - and hence the current rated A333s pilots (many from the 777 fleet) will then get back to flying a modern n supposedly newer n equivalent aircarft size to the T7s.
Also believed that in DQ pilots' contract - if the T7s pilots go down to the A333s, their CPT basic pay will not changed n still based on the T7s.

[Nick C]

Being on local terms doesn't necessarily equate to being local

[boing]

Yup, it could very well be a rumuor, after all that's what the abbreviations of the website stand for, but as they say, there's no smoke without a fire.

hence the current rated A333s pilots (many from the 777 fleet) will then get back to flying a modern n supposedly newer n equivalent aircarft size to the T7s.

The A330 was introduced in 93 compared to the B777 which was intro in 95. There's not much differences in terms of technological advances between these two. In fact, the A330s, as everyone knows, are the new kids on the block with the oldest being around 2 years old. Compared to the oldest B777 which should be around 12 years old.

Also believed that in DQ pilots' contract - if the T7s pilots go down to the A333s, their CPT basic pay will not changed n still based on the T7s.

Not sure abt this, but I would assume the basic pay should be the same as well. But from what I understand, a significant proportion of tech crews (and cabin crews as well)gross pay comes from allowances that is derived from the destinations they fly to. The further they fly and the more night stops they are on, the more allowances they get. And as the A333, is a short to medium haul a/c, less chances of that happening and thus less pay.

[flyguy]

like said the A333s will begin to leave SQ progressively when the A350s n B787s comes into service in 2 to 5 yrs time.
The T7s would is still somewhat advanced than the A330s which the 1st few have been flying pax service for some 17 yrs now - whereas the oldest T7s will be abt 12 yrs now - altho SQ have the newer 773ERs which is abt 2 yrs old on average.

[Nick C]

Originally Posted by boing

The A330 was introduced in 93 compared to the B777 which was intro in 95. There's not much differences in terms of technological advances between these two. In fact, the A330s, as everyone knows, are the new kids on the block with the oldest being around 2 years old. Compared to the oldest B777 which should be around 12 years old.

The 333 now and then are 2 very different aircraft. 9V-STA is about 16 months old

[boing]

A330s which the 1st few have been flying pax service for some 17 yrs now - whereas the oldest T7s will be abt 12 yrs now

Err, I think u misinterpreted my last post. The A330 had its first ever commercial flight in 1993. SQ only got its hands on the A330 in 2008. So, that makes at tops 2 yrs in service with SQ. The B777s, starting with 9V-SQA, were introduced in 1997. So, that makes the oldest at 12-13 years old. Although SQA is not flying anymore. So, as I mentioned, not much technological difference, if any, between these two.

The 333 now and then are 2 very different aircraft.

I don't think I quite get your message. But in any case, Yes, the A330 that SQ is flying has quite a number of avionics and structural mods compared to the the 1st A330 intro in 93. And it's also the first with engine performance mods on its engines.

[hybridace101]

Originally Posted by boing

And there's no difference in the difficulty level in flying an Airbus or a Boeing. All the a/cs have modern avionics and FBW. Any difference, if any, is negligible. B741 or B707, now that is a challenge for most new school pilots.

Per se, if you will treat the flight decks independently, it is hard to compare. However, what I'm trying to say is there is more commonality between modern Airbus aircrafts than modern Boeing aircrafts. That means it will take less time to re-learn how to use an A330 or A340 when you were accustomed to an A320 than say how to use a B747, B767 or B777 when you learned how to operate a B737. On that count, it is a bit easier to use Airbus than Boeing. Financially, training costs are lower because you don't have to retrain you pilots as much and for the pilots, the new manuals you will have to read are thinner and the amount of time spent on re-training will be shorter.

When business picks up again and these pilots get re-assigned to the A345, they are 80-90% ready after having gone through an A330 training.