QF Domestic vs Virgin Blue

[jammed]

hi guys, need some advice from DownUnder experts, which definitely include KeithMel

I'm facing prospects of re-locating to Australia, specifically Canberra. Given CBR has no direct flights with SIN, my family and i (4 pax) will need to transit at either MEL, SYD or BNE. Can I ask from your experiences whether QF Domestic or Virgin Blue is a better option? specifically,
a. Which one is cheaper (for a family of 4)?
b. Which one is more reliable (ie. no last min cancellations, lesser delays, more flexible in accommodating changes, etc. in sum not Tiger's horror stories)?

In addition, while Virgin is a *A partner (or am i wrong in this?), seems that Virgin Blue is not, which means i cant access *A lounges, am i right?

With possibilities of several domestic flights a year - i imagine having to fly CBR-SYD or -MEL or -ADL or -BNE - will it be a better value proposition to accrue miles for QF or Virgin Blue?

Finally, while i have connected from MEL and SYD into QF for CBR, i cant quite remember actual experiences; am I right that MEL has a more seamless connection which doesnt involve bus-ride to transfer to another terminal?

thanks in advance for anyone who can help

[KeithMEL]

Welcome downunder! And I'm chuffed you singled me out as an 'expert'...

a. Much of a muchness. DJ used to be the cheap and cheerful carrier, however in recent times has moved upmarket in order to compete with QF in the premium market. On most routes I have found that their fares tend to be rather similar, so it does depend on who's having a sale. Service on DJ is buy onboard, whilst you get a small snack on QF - but CBR-MEL/BNE/SYD are very short flights. Bear in mind though, that if you're connecting to an international flight - quite often you can combine the domestic QF sector as a through fare with QF or another IATA carrier for your international leg, and the cost of the domestic sector is consequently negligible. I believe DJ also participates in some of these fares, but to a lesser extent. The current CEO of DJ, John Borghetti is the former Executive GM at QF (he spearheaded a lot of the revamps at QF - new F and J lounges, onboard menus etc) and has stated that he intends to position DJ as a more upmarket carrier so expect to see a lot of changes in the months ahead. DJ has announced the introduction of widebody aircraft on transcontinental flights, and will soon be unveiling their domestic J product.

b. You do get the usual stuff-ups like flight cancellations, delays etc with both airlines, so it really is a matter of which airline is better at contingencies. My experiences with QF have been very reliable on the whole. When delays occur, QF has made every effort to keep me informed and looked after me. Their ground staff have always been very efficient and reassuring. I have never any any problems with DJ, but that's from a very small sample of 8 flights so someone else might like to chime in on this.

DJ isn't a *A partner unfortunately. They do offer interline facilities with a few select airlines - MH, DL, EY, SA and of course their international arm VA are some of the ones that come to mind. You can also accrue points and status with most of these partner airlines.

I wouldn't recommend QFF from a "value" perspective if you're looking to redeem flights for yourself and your family members. The cost of QFF redemptions have blown out in recent years and I only ever use QFF points for upgrades. QFF has really evolved from a frequent flyer program to a frequent spender program where points can be earned from so many non-flying sources (credit cards, groceries, petrol etc) that the value of points have been diluted. As for status, they do offer some decent benefits if you manage to reach Gold status at the very least, but continual 'enhancements' have IMO made holding QFF status somewhat less special.

I have not studied DJ's Velocity program in detail but haven't heard anyone complain about them. The way their accrual system works for domestic flights is a little different to conventional FFPs - the points you get are dependent on how much you paid for your fare, a bit like accumulating PPS Value. Domestic redemptions follow a similar system - every seat on the flight is available for redemption and the points required depends how much a particular fare costs. For international flights, it reverts to the traditional points per miles flown system. It also seems rather easy to reach their top Velocity Gold tier - one return flight to LAX in J and you're there. I've been hesitant to use Velocity myself as I do more international travel than domestic, and DJ's international network is rather weak compared to QF's. Also, you can't use Velocity points to upgrade on flights - but with the recent changes to the Virgin Blue Group's offerings this might soon change.

In summary, if you don't think you can accrue enough status on either program, I'd just go for the better value program. One more thing to note is that outside the trunk routes QF is moving an increasing number of flights to JQ, and only the most expensive JQ fares are eligible for QFF points. If you're not going to fly a lot domestically, just book the best fare of the day as you won't go wrong with either airline.

As for domestic connections at MEL vs SYD, MEL is the more seamless airport as you can walk from either QF/JQ or DJ domestic terminals to the international terminal since all 3 terminals are part of one big building; Tiger is in T4 which is a seperate building but even then it's still possible to walk to the international terminal. SYD is the airport that involves a bus transfer.

Hope this helps, and good luck with the move.

[jammed]

there, i see i have identified the right expert thanks a zillion KeithMEL

looks like its a decision made - i'll prob follow your advice to suss out the cheapest offers and leave out any consideration for either QF or DJ FFP. Think my consideration will in fact be departure times to be sync with arrival times of SQ flying into MEL, prob the over-night flights so that the 2 kids can sleep through most of the flight and reduce possibilities of in flight nuisance.

my only lament is that this will mean the whole family camping out at departures waiting for flights since i'm only KF EG and will only be eligible for *A lounges when departing on SQ for SIN.

incidentally, i'm thinking of flying the family in on SQ cos of reliability (punctuality, familiarity of food, service-recovery in event of foul-ups, etc) though i'm conscious that QF and EK may be cheaper (much cheaper), plus QF can provide for through connection to CBR. ahead of the family when i fly in to check out the place on my own, i actually plan to fly EK J cos of the cheap fares, that is unless the office can throw up a attractive SQ fare.Any thoughts abt this from anyone?

i am at the same time exploring another option, that is flying the family into SYD and then renting a Hertz or Budget etc and driving the 3 1/2 hr to CBR. Anyone think this is crazy?

welcome any comments, from KeithMEL and any others who have relocated with family that includes a 4 yr old and 2 yr old; thanks ahead

[KeithMEL]

A few more things:
- I suspect you'd have lots of luggage. So make sure you avoid the Qantaslink services between MEL and CBR as they're operated by Dash8 turboprops and feature reduced luggage allowances. These are distinguished by the 4 digit flight numbers. Book Qantas mainline or DJ.

- The airlines send out email newsletters whenever they have sale fares, so it'd be helpful to sign up to these.

- You can check in 30 mins before domestic departures on QF and DJ. If connecting to an international service, the check in cut off is 60 mins. Boarding usually occurs 20-30 mins before departure. So presumably you're sticking to SQ for your international leg, you won't be without a lounge for very long.

- You can combine QF domestic sectors with long haul fares on SQ on the same ticket. As they're both IATA carriers, QF will be able to through check you to the SQ flight - at the very least your luggage should be tagged through, not sure about boarding passes. For the incoming flight, you'll need to pick up your bags and check in again at the international port due to customs and quarantine regardless of the carrier/s you're flying, even if you've been through checked to CBR. It still does help if your domestic sector is on the same ticket so that if you're delayed by CIQ, you can be rebooked without a fuss.

As for driving between SYD and CBR, it's not too bad a drive if you're not fatigued after the flight from SIN. The car rental company's one way fee can be expensive though, but we recently got a Hertz one way special between ADL and MEL with one way fee waived (normally it can go up to $1000!).

[jammed]

oh thanks so much, KeithMEL for all the little tips - didnt know that the QF Connect will result in a DASH8. think have decided that barring unforeseen, will prob plan SQ for SIN-SYD, and then drive onto CBR. will PM you to keep you posted of progress

[Pinkfloyd]

Good luck with the move, jammed!

[Kyo]

In case the drive turns you off in the future, I honestly don't think you should dismiss the idea of flying in on SQ, then transferring straight onto DJ. I would definitely have no qualms doing it.

[jammed]

thanks Pinkfloyd, still waiting for the company to flesh out the deal.

And thanks Kyo - high among the considerations are the kids factor [you have met them]. Both journeys shd be ard 3+ hours (ie. flying from MEL-CBR including factoring 2 hr transit to clear baggage or driving from SYD-CBR). But driving provides the flexibility of stopping along the way for the kids to have some catharsis and they tend to sleep in the car; can let them step out of the fuselage when they are bored tho

the other factor is $$$. Think 4 pax on either DJ or QF domestic wld set me back abt AUD500++, way higher than even a Hertz i imagine.

anyway, we'll see how it goes, and what other ideas come in.