SQTalk  

Go Back   SQTalk > Singapore Airlines > All About Singapore Airlines

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7th January 2020, 08:13 PM   #1
flyguy
SQTalk Solitaire PPS
 
Join Date: 21-Dec-2006
Posts: 1,679
Default SQ Punctuality

In the latest OAG survey, SIA ranked only in the 9th position for punctuality with 85.32% and surprisngly Garuda tops the chart as Number 1 in punctuality with 95.01%. Aeroflot is in 6th position and there were 2 low cost carriers ahead of SQ.
https://www.businessinsider.sg/singa...-carrier-is-1/
flyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2020, 11:36 PM   #2
ponders
SQTalker
 
Join Date: 24-Nov-2016
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
In the latest OAG survey, SIA ranked only in the 9th position for punctuality with 85.32% and surprisngly Garuda tops the chart as Number 1 in punctuality with 95.01%. Aeroflot is in 6th position and there were 2 low cost carriers ahead of SQ.
https://www.businessinsider.sg/singa...-carrier-is-1/
It never really mention how they arrived at these numbers.

As I understand it, Indonesia regulations require compensation to passengers and will penalise the airlines if there is frequent unacceptable delays.

As such, it is quite common for airlines in Indonesia to load passengers into the aircraft but face very long waiting time on the ground after doors are closed. At some extremes some airlines save $ by not having APUs/ground electrical supply while loading pax.

However, on paper their "block time" have already commenced.

Also (at least for domestic flights) some air lines do put in extra estimated arrival time. E.g. CGK SUB is sometimes listed as estimated 3 hours. I am told this might be untrue as such timings are set by ICAO not airlines.

That being said, I am not really familiar with the above technicalities so I might make wrong assumptions.

Also, Garuda don't really have that many international flights, they probability of anything going wrong might be lesser too compared to SIA's more complicated routes and aircraft utilisation rate is much higher than Garuda.
ponders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 08:21 AM   #3
SQ957
SQTalk Elite Gold
 
Join Date: 28-Sep-2017
Location: Jakarta, Chicago
Posts: 176
Default

For one they (GA) did delay my ICN-CGK flight by 21 hours... so I went to cancel it and book *A instead. My three previous longest delays were on GA as well. From my experience, SQ is very punctual.
SQ957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 08:48 AM   #4
wlgspotter
SQTalk Elite Gold
 
Join Date: 28-May-2007
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Programs: SQ, NZ, QF, VA, UA, AA
Posts: 181
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponders View Post
It never really mention how they arrived at these numbers.

As I understand it, Indonesia regulations require compensation to passengers and will penalise the airlines if there is frequent unacceptable delays.

As such, it is quite common for airlines in Indonesia to load passengers into the aircraft but face very long waiting time on the ground after doors are closed. At some extremes some airlines save $ by not having APUs/ground electrical supply while loading pax.

However, on paper their "block time" have already commenced.

Also (at least for domestic flights) some air lines do put in extra estimated arrival time. E.g. CGK SUB is sometimes listed as estimated 3 hours. I am told this might be untrue as such timings are set by ICAO not airlines.

That being said, I am not really familiar with the above technicalities so I might make wrong assumptions.

Also, Garuda don't really have that many international flights, they probability of anything going wrong might be lesser too compared to SIA's more complicated routes and aircraft utilisation rate is much higher than Garuda.
I do agree that we don’t really know how these so-called “on time departures” were determined.

From my memory of working with SATS in the early 90’s, for an SQ flight, SQ measures a flight as being “departed” from the moment an aircraft pushes back from the departure gate, which is, naturally, the departure time as stated in bookings/tickets. Any push back that is greater than 3 minutes after STD constitutes a delay. Delays, as such, could be anything - mechanical, weather, traffic etc. Flights don’t generally push back until initial en-route ATC clearance is obtained.

Some other airlines that I know, however, measures “departure time” as when the final passenger gets on board. Therefore, as @ponders indicated, everyone could have been on board but the plane may be sitting on the gate/tarmac for some time due to one issue or the other, and yet not constitute a delay.

In any case, I have always find SQ very punctual. OuT of my recent travels with SQ, only my recent SIN-AKL return (SQ285) flight was delayed due to an aircraft swap from a V1 to V2 A380 that resulted in the gate staff having to sort out some duplicate seat issues. That was one of the very rare times that I faced a delay with SQ.
wlgspotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 09:17 AM   #5
boing
SQTalk PPS Club
 
Join Date: 27-Oct-2008
Posts: 657
Default

It would be interesting to note the survey's definition of "on time departure" and the duration it was taken.
As wlgspotter mentioned, most airlines' departure time is the time it pushesback from the gate and is registered in the aircraft's computers as well. Some airlines I know go around this by releasing the parking brakes before pushback clearance is given to fool the system into registering an on time departure.

From my knowledge, some aircraft's computers require the parking brakes released and the wheels to move, so they can't be cheated. Just FYI, departure time is also known as "chocks off /blocks off time" or "brakes off time" in the airline lingo.

Another reason could be that during the Pakistani airspace closure last year, a number of SQ European departures were delayed due to ATC restrictions.

Meanwhile, it is interesting to note that the Business Insider link that wrote Garuda as the most punctual airline also has a link at the bottom that mentions JKT airport as the airport with the most delays in the world.
boing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 10:05 AM   #6
flyguy
SQTalk Solitaire PPS
 
Join Date: 21-Dec-2006
Posts: 1,679
Default

The way ontime departure is when an aircraft departs within 15 mins of the intended scheduled departure time. Anthing after 15 mins from the scheduled departure time ie push back is considered a delay. Apart from Garuda, we can see that there are still few airlines ahead of SQ, including 2 low cost airlines. Believed it does not really matter if like some say other airlines have fewer international departures as it includes all departures ie domestic, regional or international.
flyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 10:30 AM   #7
flyguy
SQTalk Solitaire PPS
 
Join Date: 21-Dec-2006
Posts: 1,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ957 View Post
For one they (GA) did delay my ICN-CGK flight by 21 hours... so I went to cancel it and book *A instead. My three previous longest delays were on GA as well. From my experience, SQ is very punctual.
One can see from one of these here under "SQ flight depays and disruptions" to see as it does affects the punctuality.
flyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 10:35 AM   #8
yuuka_miya
SQTalk Elite Gold
 
Join Date: 22-Nov-2018
Programs: KF nothing
Posts: 229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boing View Post

Meanwhile, it is interesting to note that the Business Insider link that wrote Garuda as the most punctual airline also has a link at the bottom that mentions JKT airport as the airport with the most delays in the world.
My thought was that GA runs operations out of so many smaller airports where they can get perfect punctuality, that it's enough to offset CGK.
__________________
an infrastructure geek
yuuka_miya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 11:34 AM   #9
Jumbojet Lover
SQTalk PPS Club
 
Jumbojet Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: 26-Dec-2009
Programs: Krisflyer, TrueBlue, Flying Blue, AAdvantage
Posts: 559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
One can see from one of these here under "SQ flight depays and disruptions" to see as it does affects the punctuality.
Yes there is some effect, but the thread does nothing that allows us to quantify SQ's overall punctuality.

As mentioned above, OAG's methodology is unclear, and it also very possible that airlines cheat the system, pad their flight schedules so as to have more "on-time" departures and arrivals. It's also positive customer experience.

I would take OAG's punctuality survey with a grain of salt, nothing worthy to fuss about.
Jumbojet Lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 06:35 PM   #10
SQ228
SQTalk Life Solitaire PPS
 
Join Date: 16-Dec-2010
Location: Currently DUS, usually MEL
Programs: KF Pleb
Posts: 2,856
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuuka_miya View Post
My thought was that GA runs operations out of so many smaller airports where they can get perfect punctuality, that it's enough to offset CGK.
Thatís exactly what came to my mind as well. The same goes for some LCCs (not all obviously), where they use secondary airports with less traffic. As an international-only airline flying principally to busy, often congested airports, they deserve more to be compared with the EK/EY/QR on punctuality grounds.
SQ228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 08:11 PM   #11
yuuka_miya
SQTalk Elite Gold
 
Join Date: 22-Nov-2018
Programs: KF nothing
Posts: 229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ228 View Post
That’s exactly what came to my mind as well. The same goes for some LCCs (not all obviously), where they use secondary airports with less traffic. As an international-only airline flying principally to busy, often congested airports, they deserve more to be compared with the EK/EY/QR on punctuality grounds.
Arguably there's also a bit of explaining to do as to why 3K ranks higher than SQ, since they both hub out of SIN, and there's quite a bit of overlap between 3K and SQ/MI destinations.

Though I'd say it's because in absolute terms 3K is a much smaller airline, and that their exposure to really congested airports would probably be SIN, MNL and CGK at the most. They only serve 3 destinations in China and don't even bother with the big cities too.
__________________
an infrastructure geek
yuuka_miya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th January 2020, 09:06 PM   #12
fone
SQTalk PPS Club
 
Join Date: 09-Feb-2008
Programs: A3 *G
Posts: 326
Default

Could also be due to connecting traffic.

(On the same ticket) SQ is responsible for connecting traffic, so one delay may cascade down to a few others for connecting passengers. Like accommodation and meals if one misconnects, due to their own fault. Especially if there are no other penalties for delaying a flight for 30 mins or so for these passengers. Like I was on UA for ORD - NRT - SIN during SARS or H1N1. Flight was delayed plus they had to come on board to check everyone's temperature before disembarking. They held the connecting flights for the connecting passengers. Otherwise, they would have needed to put us up on hotels and next day's flight.

Budget airlines are not responsible for connecting passengers, or even earn more change fees if one misconnects.

Also for AWOL passengers who checked in, but failed to board. SQ tends to wait longer for them? Compared to budget airlines (where the ticket would incur more change fees)?

Overall, it may come down to company policy for connecting passengers and for checked-in no shows.

Not an expert or SQ apologist, thought I saw one documentary where the GA sent people down to the duty free to catch these people to board flights (think was a documentary about Changi Airport, so may not SQ specific).
fone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th January 2020, 12:00 AM   #13
oliverdave
SQTalk Elite Silver
 
Join Date: 02-Aug-2019
Posts: 90
Default

Honestly it’s not a big deal. We all here love SQ so there’s no point getting defensive. It’s just another survey.
oliverdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2020, 03:39 PM   #14
StarFlyer
SQTalker
 
Join Date: 25-Dec-2018
Posts: 1
Default

To answer some of the questions from previous post, to qualify for inclusion in the OAG Punctuality League, OAG must have flight status data for at least 80% of all scheduled flights operated by the airline or airport.

– OAG’s definition of on-time performance (OTP) is flights that arrive or depart within 15 minutes of their scheduled arrival/departure times.
– Cancellations are included within the OTP calculations and are counted as late flights.

Airlines

– The report considers airlines that are ranked among the largest 250 airlines globally by annual Available Seat Kilometres (ASKs).

– OAG’s airline OTP calculations are based on operating carrier code and are restricted to scheduled passenger flights only.
– Airline OTP is calculated based on arrivals data only.
– Flights where OAG do not have the required arrival time or confirmation that the flight was diverted or cancelled are not included in the OTP calculations for airlines.
– All scheduled flights operated by affiliate carriers on behalf of another carrier are included in the analysis.

Airports

– Airports must have a minimum of 2.5m departing seats to be included in the report.
– OAG’s airport OTP calculations are restricted to scheduled passenger flights only.
– Airport OTP is calculated based on both departures and arrivals data.
– Flights where OAG do not have the required departure and arrival time or confirmation that the flight was diverted or cancelled are not included in the OTP calculations for airports.
StarFlyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th January 2020, 05:16 PM   #15
lingua101
SQTalk Solitaire PPS
 
lingua101's Avatar
 
Join Date: 18-Aug-2009
Location: Singapore
Programs: Royal Orchid Plus
Posts: 1,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverdave View Post
Honestly itís not a big deal. We all here love SQ so thereís no point getting defensive. Itís just another survey.
+1

Why people is not happy?

There are many factors that caused the flight get delayed. Most of them are not within the airlines controls.

My personal take yes that 95% (or whatever the number is), GA flight is on time (I think the on time definition is within 15 min). But what about the other 5%?

Do take note also, now a days airlines are adding time on the flying time to factor in on the potential delay due to waiting time on ground. So the more fat they put, the higher chance they will be on time.
__________________
visit my blog
lingua101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +8. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Techadmin: Luke | Hosting: www.lomag.net