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  • I flew WLG-CBR a few weeks ago in Y. Ticket cost me about $130. Was in row 31 so didn't pay much attention to Y load, and was first Y passenger off and straight through immigration, so I didn't see what percentage of passengers were transiting.

    J load must have been very low, as when I stood up at the first opportunity in CBR, I hadn't noticed before, but the curtain to J was open, and not a single occupant in the rear J cabin.

    I think they must have serious J load problems, as the check in desks in WLG had little permanent looking signs on them with an offer of upgrade to CBR ($299) and even on to SIN (can't remember how much). I can't imagine they would be doing this if they were filling the seats. You generally only see this with either struggling airlines, struggling routes, or struggling loads in a particular class (JAL does it for W class SYD-NRT, for instance). Sounds like the death rattle, especially if they're doing it all the way to SIN. It would be J traffic SIN-CBR-SIN that will make or break this route.

    I would be sad to see this route go, living 10 minutes from CBR airport, an airport that can take less than 10 minutes to pass through, is super convenient. There was no waiting for a gate, no waiting for the airbridge. 10 minutes after stepping out of the aircraft door I was in a car and on my way, 2 minutes of that was waiting for the Uber. 15 minutes later, head was on the pillow on my own bed. Dinner in Wellington, sleep in my own bed, $130 airfare, full service airline. Not bad at all.

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    • It is not only the low yields and low loads. Even the crewing costs will be significantly higher than other Australia and New Zealand stations. With the non-daily flights, SQ would require to lay-over each set of cabin and tech crew 3 times for each rotation, with the layover up to 2 days at each stop. If I am not wrong, it is a 9-10 days work pattern for the SIN-CBR-WLG-CBR-SIN route.
      My past and future travels

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      • Originally posted by thelongroad View Post
        I would be sad to see this route go, living 10 minutes from CBR airport, an airport that can take less than 10 minutes to pass through, is super convenient. There was no waiting for a gate, no waiting for the airbridge. 10 minutes after stepping out of the aircraft door I was in a car and on my way, 2 minutes of that was waiting for the Uber. 15 minutes later, head was on the pillow on my own bed. Dinner in Wellington, sleep in my own bed, $130 airfare, full service airline. Not bad at all.
        Personally, I too, would be sad to see this route go, albeit ex WLG.

        Having lived in WLG for about 16 years (hence my username!), I have a soft spot for it - it is still quite a nice little city. I have long wished for SQ (or any other international carrier other than your usual NZ / Australian airlines) to fly to WLG. Unfortunately that did not happen whilst we were living there, but I was super excited to read/see SQ started it last year.

        Hopefully they won't cull it - yikes I've got family booked to travel WLG-SIN in May/June this year so hopefully they won't be affected...

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        • Originally posted by thelongroad View Post
          I think they must have serious J load problems, as the check in desks in WLG had little permanent looking signs on them with an offer of upgrade to CBR ($299) and even on to SIN (can't remember how much). I can't imagine they would be doing this if they were filling the seats. You generally only see this with either struggling airlines, struggling routes, or struggling loads in a particular class (JAL does it for W class SYD-NRT, for instance). Sounds like the death rattle, especially if they're doing it all the way to SIN. It would be J traffic SIN-CBR-SIN that will make or break it.
          You're very right about that. They have to get J traffic or it's not worth it.

          Thanks for the eye-witness report. That's not sounding healthy.

          The problem with CBR is the lack of consistency in traffic. Airlines can charge $500 for a seat out of CBR to MEL on a Friday evening during parliament sitting weeks and they get it. They also get away with only offering Flexi tickets at those times because they are booked months in advance and politics is an unpredictable game. If you know the plane will be empty though, what's the point of paying Flexi? Just book the day before. The ability to sell Flexi fares is another key consideration in making this route profitable.

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          • I've been following this route launch with interest, as I grew up in Canberra but have called Singapore home for the last seven years.

            It seems strange this news story was only quoted in the ABC news in Australia… reports on the load factors vary widely, I guess partly because of the nature of the route with a bit of transfer and point-to-point traffic on each leg. Having said that, I've thought a SIN - CBR service will do well given time, as I've taken the SIN - CHC direct flight quite a few times, very similar catchment to Canberra and they are always packed.

            As part of the review, is it possible SQ would 'drop' the CBR - WEL leg, and just time the flights to arrive into Canberra and depart back to Singapore shortly afterwards? A 777 is a very big plane to fill to Wellington, so perhaps Air NZ or Virgin could step in, and run a connecting flight on an A320 or similar? This would prevent a loss of 'face' in appearing to drop the Wellington connection so early, and would still offer connecting traffic onto both flights...

            Lastly it will likely take some time to build up loyalty in the J cabin from Canberra to Singapore, where many in CBR are very tied into the QF loyalty scheme. And for many of Canberra's public servants, having to stay overnight in Sydney for a connecting flight is seen as a feature, not a bug.

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            • Could Slk Air take the route? Will the 737's or A320's have the range?

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              • Originally posted by FN-GM View Post
                Could Slk Air take the route? Will the 737's or A320's have the range?
                I don't think the J product would be up to it. Ultimately, CBR needs to be a success in J. There aren't the millions of tourists to fill the plane compared to SYD and if SQ can slowly lure the J travellers, then it will work.

                Saltwater has made some very sharp observations. Welcome to the forum!

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                • Originally posted by SQ228 View Post
                  I don't think the J product would be up to it. Ultimately, CBR needs to be a success in J. There aren't the millions of tourists to fill the plane compared to SYD and if SQ can slowly lure the J travellers, then it will work.

                  Saltwater has made some very sharp observations. Welcome to the forum!
                  Well I think what SQ should do is to market CBR-SIN to Sydney and Melbourne passengers and co-operate with Virgin Australia to introduce connections from Sydney/Melbourne.

                  This includes when we search for SYD-SIN or MEL-SIN, there's an option that we can book SYD-CBR-SIN and MEL-CBR-SIN.

                  The red eye timing for CBR-SIN is attractive, in particular to Sydney passengers because currently there's no red eye departure from Sydney to Singapore, forcing Sydney passengers to waste time sleeping at Changi overnight and wait for their next flight to Hong Kong and rest of Asia.

                  With SYD-CBR-SIN, passengers can leave Sydney at 9pm and connect with SQ292 and arrive Singapore at 5:40am which is handy for Asian connections without wasting $60 to stay in Ambassador Transit Hotel.

                  Moreover, since the downsizing of SQ218 to A350, passengers have been struggling to book economy seats on board this flight even that's 3 months in advance. Therefore if SQ can allow passengers to book MEL-CBR-SIN, then they can still enjoy the overnight flight without the need to book Premium Economy or Business Class because SQ 218 is full.

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                  • Originally posted by Metropolitan Airlines View Post
                    Well I think what SQ should do is to market CBR-SIN to Sydney and Melbourne passengers and co-operate with Virgin Australia to introduce connections from Sydney/Melbourne.

                    This includes when we search for SYD-SIN or MEL-SIN, there's an option that we can book SYD-CBR-SIN and MEL-CBR-SIN.
                    I've definitely seen those options available at some point. They are definitely available when searching flight schedules but not 100% if I've seen it in bookings. I don't see what would be so hard for them to do it. If I book flying to/from DUS on a day that there is a DUS direct flight on SQ, I still get a long list of alternate connections via FRA or MUC flying LH.

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                    • The other idea that I have is to cut the CBR-WLG sector but reroute SQ291/292 as SYD-CBR-SIN.

                      What Sydney really lacks now is a SQ red eye service ex-SYD which arrives the next morning in Singapore, but curfew means the red eye service may arrive at SIN too early. So it is a perfect idea that the flight will leave at 10pm from SYD, arrives CBR at 11pm and then leave CBR after midnight and arrive SIN at 5-6am.

                      I am sure this will be popular at least for ex-SYD passengers so even if ex-CBR is weak, demand from SYD will help fill up the plane.

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                      • Originally posted by Metropolitan Airlines View Post
                        The other idea that I have is to cut the CBR-WLG sector but reroute SQ291/292 as SYD-CBR-SIN.

                        What Sydney really lacks now is a SQ red eye service ex-SYD which arrives the next morning in Singapore, but curfew means the red eye service may arrive at SIN too early. So it is a perfect idea that the flight will leave at 10pm from SYD, arrives CBR at 11pm and then leave CBR after midnight and arrive SIN at 5-6am.

                        I am sure this will be popular at least for ex-SYD passengers so even if ex-CBR is weak, demand from SYD will help fill up the plane.
                        VA can already fulfil this without needing to fuel up a 777 for such a short distance. I can't see it'd be economical given they'd need to also get the plane from CBR-SYD running at a parallel timing to SQ241 or SQ211, unless you are proposing a triangular route where SIN-CBR passengers fly via SYD.

                        I think it possibly just needs time and an A350 to make it work.

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                        • Originally posted by SQ228 View Post
                          VA can already fulfil this without needing to fuel up a 777 for such a short distance. I can't see it'd be economical given they'd need to also get the plane from CBR-SYD running at a parallel timing to SQ241 or SQ211, unless you are proposing a triangular route where SIN-CBR passengers fly via SYD.

                          I think it possibly just needs time and an A350 to make it work.
                          Maybe a 787-10?

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                          • Originally posted by loldude333 View Post
                            Maybe a 787-10?
                            I would think so too that a 78J would be the ideal aircraft for this route. I would also hazard to guess that the A359 in regional config will be almost identical to the 78J.

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                            • For what it's worth, a reporter from the NZ Herald completed a review of the WEL - CBR leg recently, and quoted "How full: Business Class was three-quarters full and Economy was full to the brim". This doesn't sound as grim as first feared

                              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/new...ectid=11831596

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                              • Originally posted by SQ228 View Post
                                VA can already fulfil this without needing to fuel up a 777 for such a short distance. I can't see it'd be economical given they'd need to also get the plane from CBR-SYD running at a parallel timing to SQ241 or SQ211, unless you are proposing a triangular route where SIN-CBR passengers fly via SYD.

                                I think it possibly just needs time and an A350 to make it work.
                                I think triangular routing might work, in particular with the curfew at Sydney Airport that you can make SQ211 to stop at Sydney and leave at 10pm for Canberra then to Singapore, and have the A380 to run SQ212 the next morning.

                                But that would require possibly rearrangements of planes currently in Sydney, also it will require possibly one extra service to Sydney arriving early in the morning to enable planes for SQ212 or SQ232.

                                Though honestly, it is frustrating that Sydney passengers don't get a red eye out of the city that forces us to fork out $60 for Ambassador Transit Hotel or $100 to fly to Melbourne and then change for SQ218 to Singapore in order to arrive in the morning.

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