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Old 20th April 2008, 11:12 PM   #1
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Default Suites Class makes First Class second class

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Originally Posted by MAN Flyer View Post
He did say it was be Suites pax only, no F pax or TPP's..
If they are really going to introduce a lounge for Suites only, it would undermine the exclusivity of their regular F class and create a "2nd class First Class". A logical second step could then be the permanent removal of Dom (or Krug or both), Caviar and 2nd growth Bordeaux (giving them ideas) from regular F (2nd class F)

This would certainly not be beneficial to their passenger load in regular F... I'm convinced that a considerable amount of people (especially in Asia) fly F also because of the prestige factor (flying in the best class). The difference between SQ's new F and C products on the 77W is relatively small so why would people want to fly regular F if they can get a similar product in C at half the price and when SQ treats them as "second-class" First passengers...

If they really start making substantial distinctions between F and Suites passengers (such as creating a lounge for "the better" F class passengers) I wonder where SQ's marketing executives went to school... It doesn't make sense to have 2 different levels of F class especially these days when the gap between C and F products is marginal.

Last edited by SQOZflyer; 20th April 2008 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 20th April 2008, 11:55 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by SQOZflyer View Post
If they are really going to introduce a lounge for Suites only, it would undermine the exclusivity of their regular F class and create a "2nd class First Class". A logical second step could then be the permanent removal of Dom (or Krug or both), Caviar and 2nd growth Bordeaux (giving them ideas) from regular F (2nd class F)

This would certainly not be beneficial to their passenger load in regular F... I'm convinced that a considerable amount of people (especially in Asia) fly F also because of the prestige factor (flying in the best class). The difference between SQ's new F and C products on the 77W is relatively small so why would people want to fly regular F if they can get a similar product in C at half the price and when SQ treats them as "second-class" First passengers...

If they really start making substantial distinctions between F and Suites passengers (such as creating a lounge for "the better" F class passengers) I wonder where SQ's marketing executives went to school... It doesn't make sense to have 2 different levels of F class especially these days when the gap between C and F products is marginal.
couldn't say it any better. kudos!

Last edited by jjpb3; 21st April 2008 at 03:49 AM.. Reason: merging errors; sorry, taipeiflyer
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Old 21st April 2008, 12:57 AM   #3
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THX taipeiflyer, IMHO the creation of a "Suites Class" itself is complete nonsense and not a good move from a marketing point of view for the previously mentioned reasons. The launch of "Suites Class", the entire renaming, printing of different boarding passes and differentiation between two F classes is an unnecessary waste of resources. Resources that had to be saved elsewhere (eg. barman in T3 lounge + they risk to upset their most loyal customers by cutting all meaningful privileges for them etc.) I wonder how much money the launch of the "Suites brand" costs SQ. Why could they not just keep a normal F class... and used the new Suite product (which is excellent from personal experience) to promote their regular First (eg. "Our First, now even more exclusive with the new Suites") the introduction of "Suites class" smells very much as if a manager (probably from some prestigious school and without much common sense wanted to promote himself...). A blunt measure to demand a premium price...

I sincerely hope SQ abolishes "Suites Class" in the future, once the A380 hype is over... Many airlines only have 2 classes these days, why does SQ need 4? Also the trend is towards the creation of a class (Premium economy) that fills the gap between Economy and Business, not towards a "Premium First". Nobody needs "Suites Class"...

Anyway, slightly off topic... sorry... but I'm gald it's said...

Last edited by jjpb3; 21st April 2008 at 03:50 AM.. Reason: merging errors; sorry, SQOZflyer
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Old 21st April 2008, 02:08 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by SQOZflyer View Post
Resources that had to be saved elsewhere (eg. barman in T3 lounge + .... {the} cutting {of} meaningful privileges
I can understand the origin of your feelings, though of course, I do not share them. However, I would posit that the rationalisation of privileges with respect to the frequent flyer programmes would have occurred anyway, regardless of the introduction of the Singapore Airlines Suites brand extension or otherwise.

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Nobody needs "Suites Class"...
Well, happily for SIA, there is solid demand for the Singapore Airlines Suites ... so far.
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Old 21st April 2008, 02:22 AM   #5
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As good as the Suites are, I still think of it as a First Class product. "Suites" is just a marketing gimmick to charge more.
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Old 21st April 2008, 02:58 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Singapore_Air View Post
Well, happily for SIA, there is solid demand for the Singapore Airlines Suites ... so far.
My statement that "nobody needs Suites Class" refers to the new brand name "Suites Class" rather than to the Suites product. Sorry if I did not express myself clearly. I am aware that there is solid demand for the Suites product (I have flown Suites 3times between SIN-SYD myself and it is no doubt the best F product so far). However what I consider unnecessary is the introduction of the new name "Suites Class"... In my opinion it would have been sufficient to keep the "First Class" name and promote the Suites under the "First Class" brand. "Suite Class" is a marketing gimmick as StarG pointed out and IMHO not even a particularly good one, as it risks to undermine the exclusivity of "First Class". This is especially true if SQ decides to treat passengers from "Suites " better (for example with the introduction of a separate lounge as it is rumored in this thread).

Also what is the point in creating 2 average lounges for 2 different F brands, rather than creating one exclusive and leading F Lounge for 1 F brand? But I am aware that SQ has chosen a different strategy... just my opinion.

Sorry my comments about "the cutting of meaningful privileges" were not relevant to the topic. The anger about the "Suites" name got me out of control I apologize...

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Old 21st April 2008, 03:09 AM   #7
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Well as I said, the emotions stemming from the rationalisation of frequent flyer privileges is understanding so no need to apologise for that at all SQOZFlyer.

For the short term though, I would say that even if it is a marketing gimmick, the Suites marketing and publicity surrounding it has been very beneficial in creating awareness and adds to SIA's perceived value of offering premium air travel. Nearly every article that has reported on the Suites has either included the quotes "A Class Beyond First" or "Beyond First Class". This can give prospective customers associations with something much more superior to First Class which as we all know is reflected in the product.

Whether the Suites term remains will be for time to tell though depending on demand, economic factors etc... I would agree that it is not a given that it will stay in perpetuity such as a generic term like First Class, Business Class and Economy Class.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singapore_Air View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SQOZflyer View Post
Resources that had to be saved elsewhere (eg. barman in T3 lounge + .... {the} cutting {of} meaningful privileges
I can understand the origin of your feelings, though of course, I do not share them. However, I would posit that the rationalisation of privileges with respect to the frequent flyer programmes would have occurred anyway, regardless of the introduction of the Singapore Airlines Suites brand extension or otherwise.
With respect, I find it difficult to consider your voice to be that of a frequent flyer affected by the changes. I don't think you're in a position to judge whether the privileges that were withdrawn were meaningful.

I can understand the origin of your feelings, though to be honest, I'm inclined to discount them.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:12 AM   #9
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well. maybe the whizkids at marketing will decide to rebrand economy class as "Hostel Class" with industry-leading "BunkBeds"

I agree with SQOZflyer that creating another class is unnecessary - it simply doesn't make sense. As it is, whether one flies Suites class or not, is strictly confined to what equipment is put on the routes I fly on. If i'm stuck on a route that gets 772 or (in time to come) A330s, I won't get to fly Suites anyway - even if I had the money or the intention to.

Pretty bad move to further segregate, given that SQ already has one of the most fragmented FFPs in the industry.

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Old 21st April 2008, 04:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjpb3 View Post
With respect, I find it difficult to consider your voice to be that of a frequent flyer affected by the changes. I don't think you're in a position to judge whether the privileges that were withdrawn were meaningful.

I can understand the origin of your feelings, though to be honest, I'm inclined to discount them.
I am unaware where in the post I supported or did not support the rationalisation of frequent flyer programme privileges. My statement was meant to indicate that regardless of the resource needs of other SIA projects, the actions of SIA regarding these privileges would have probably occurred anyway.

With respect, I do not understand the origin of your statements, but if you could clarify your position so that I can offer more clarity in the future that would be beneficial. I'm disappointed you feel the need to discount my opinions but there's not much I am going to do about that.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singapore_Air View Post
Well, happily for SIA, there is solid demand for the Singapore Airlines Suites ... so far.
But in a way the demand is there because of a lack of choice between Suites and F on the same aircraft.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singapore_Air View Post
I am unaware where in the post I supported or did not support the rationalisation of frequent flyer programme privileges. My statement was meant to indicate that regardless of the resource needs of other SIA projects, the actions of SIA regarding these privileges would have probably occurred anyway.
I guess I read a lack of empathy about the recent changes. See the passage I quoted. Perhaps I misinterpreted? In which case, I apologize.
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With respect, I do not understand the origin of your statements, but if you could clarify your position so that I can offer more clarity in the future that would be beneficial. I'm disappointed you feel the need to discount my opinions but there's not much I am going to do about that.
You've been a very valuable contributor to this forum, so for that, I'm thankful. But when it comes to the cutbacks in frequent flyer benefits -- where you don't seem to share the pain of the SQ frequent flyers (again, I may have misinterpreted) -- I think I have reason to be a bit more skeptical. I can't get away from the feeling that SQ is sacrificing short-term gains for long-term loyalty. You seem happy with the trend, but I'm not: having spent my money on PPS status at some point, I feel I have an inkling what the recent changes might signal to PPS (non-Solitaire, mind you) members.

With respect, that's why I discount your views when it comes to frequent flying on SQ. No need to fret about doing anything about that: things are as things are, unless new data come in. You form your views, I form mine.

I'm happy to be proved wrong about SQ's direction and treatment of frequent flyers.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:42 AM   #13
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The only time Suites & First are going to mix is on the ground. There's either Suites, Business, Economy or First, Business, Economy. Passengers who fly SQ F for the 'prestige factor' are still going to be in the top class for that particular flight. Does the difference between New First Class & say regional First creating marketing mayhem?! Whilst I see the issue here is Suites vs. First, they're both top.
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
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The only time Suites & First are going to mix is on the ground.
Therefore where the lounge privileges are relevant? Hence this thread? Is there a reason you omitted TPPs and LPPs from your post?
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Old 21st April 2008, 04:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I guess I read a lack of empathy about the recent changes. See the passage I quoted. Perhaps I misinterpreted? In which case, I apologize.
No worries. I assumed you had read that hence my somewhat frosty response. Misunderstanding over .

As for the rest, I'll PM you as I don't want to divert the topic for our own benefit.
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