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Which FFP for me? Master Discussion

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  • #46
    quite a fascinating little trick of the trade alex0683de. thank you for sharing with all of us- much appreciated! and welcome to sqtalk!!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by taipeiflyer View Post
      quite a fascinating little trick of the trade alex0683de. thank you for sharing with all of us- much appreciated! and welcome to sqtalk!!
      Thank you - on both counts.

      Now I just need to hurry up with this degree of mine so that I can put this little trick into practice before it is "enhanced" away...

      Comment


      • #48
        Education Materials Needed

        OK, here’s a story for you:

        A girl I know just completed an itinerary around the world, but did not book an ATW fare as portions were booked at different times in different countries. The routing was as follows (with respective LH miles verified with M&M CS [although she said I couldn't earn any EQM's on this itinerary -- strange]):

        LAX => IAD UA Y 150% 3,432

        IAD => JNB SA C 200% 16,262

        JNB => MTS SA Y 150% 750

        MTS => JNB SA Y 150% 750

        JNB => SIN SQ C 200% 10,760

        SIN => TPE SQ C 200% 4,000

        TPE => LAX SQ Y 150% 10,170


        TOTAL = 46,124 Miles & EQM’s


        Conversely, UA has offered:

        29,467 Total Miles with Class of Service Bonuses

        25,526 EQM's

        I must add that United’s Philippine Call Center was an absolute disaster. When I asked for a supervisor, they transferred me to “Asian Languages.”


        KF (since she dominantly flies SQ when she can and usually pays for C – oh, do they expire as well?), I’m unsure of…same goes for BD…


        She has no knowledge or too much caring about FFP’s – which is why I’m stepping in here (I just can’t stand to see mileage go to waste). Add to that the fact that she’ll probably be doing another one of these before the year is over. She's REALLY in need of some major education here...

        Question: Which FFP should she join and retroactively credit? CGK (what in the world do you do for a living??? I want your F Class flying life!) and MAN Flyer, I’ve read many of your posts and value your input here…

        If I understand correctly, LH miles expire if not SEN or HON…however UA is quite stingy with non-UA/LH flights.

        Thanks to all!
        Last edited by HUGE AL; 25 July 2007, 03:01 PM.
        HUGE AL

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        • #49
          Originally posted by HUGE AL View Post
          If I understand correctly, LH miles expire if not SEN or HON…
          They also do not expire for FTL - which can be achieved at 35 000 EQMs, or for holders of a German M+M credit card.

          Welcome to SQTalk, HUGE AL.
          All opinions shared are my own, and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other organisation of which I'm affiliated to.

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          • #50
            KeithMEL, another awesome poster... Many thanks.

            So, what's your opinion on this FFP issue...UA, LH, BD, SQ, etc?
            HUGE AL

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            • #51
              Originally posted by HUGE AL View Post
              KeithMEL, another awesome poster... Many thanks.


              You're welcome.

              Originally posted by HUGE AL View Post
              So, what's your opinion on this FFP issue...UA, LH, BD, SQ, etc?
              They each have their advantages and disadvantages. Just briefly:

              UA is great if you fly UA a lot but otherwise, as you've noted - zero COS bonus on partners (except for LH tatl flights I think... not sure about this one). According to the screams of protest on the UA board on FT, it can be tough using UA miles on partners.

              BD offers very good earn/burn, particularly with Cash+Miles. You also get decent accrual on premium cabins (though not as good as M+M). BD*G is very achievable with 57000 miles required at the first go, and 38 000 to requalify. Get a status match (comparably easy to achieve) and you need not bother about the initial 57 000 miles ,only the 38k. I wouldn't be concerned about BD collapsing anytime soon as they show no signs of doing so and on the contrary, hold very valuable slots at LHR.

              LH - what I currently use. Am pretty happy with it. You can scroll through this thread to read everything that;s been said about it thus far. LH has a very rigid zone system. The zone system works to your advantage if you can find a direct way to get from one zone to another, but otherwise 3 zone awards are expensive for the shorter journeys. And of course - status lasts for 2 years.

              SQ - yep miles expire after 3 years, and there's nothing you can do to prevent them from expiring. The advantage of using Krisflyer is the ability to upgrade on SQ tickets, which enables upgrades on cheaper fare buckets than *A upgrades.
              Last edited by KeithMEL; 25 July 2007, 02:43 PM.
              All opinions shared are my own, and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other organisation of which I'm affiliated to.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by HUGE AL View Post
                OK, here’s a story for you:

                A girl I know just completed an itinerary around the world, but did not book an ATW fare as portions were booked at different times in different countries. The routing was as follows (with respective LH miles verified with M&M CS):

                LAX => IAD UA Y 150% 3,432

                IAD => JNB SA C 200% 16,262

                JNB => MTS SA Y 150% 750

                MTS => JNB SA Y 150% 750

                JNB => SIN SQ C 200% 10,760

                SIN => TPE SQ C 200% 4,000

                TPE => LAX SQ Y 150% 10,170


                TOTAL = 46,124 Miles & EQM’s


                Conversely, UA has offered:

                29,467 Total Miles with Class of Service Bonuses

                25,526 EQM's

                I must add that United’s Philippine Call Center was an absolute disaster. When I asked for a supervisor, they transferred me to “Asian Languages.”


                KF (since she dominantly flies SQ when she can and usually pays for C – oh, do they expire as well?), I’m unsure of…same goes for BD…


                She has no knowledge or too much caring about FFP’s – which is why I’m stepping in here (I just can’t stand to see mileage go to waste). Add to that the fact that she’ll probably be doing another one of these before the year is over. She's REALLY in need of some major education here...

                Question: Which FFP should she join and retroactively credit? CGK (what in the world do you do for a living??? I want your F Class flying life!) and MAN Flyer, I’ve read many of your posts and value your input here…

                If I understand correctly, LH miles expire if not SEN or HON…however UA is quite stingy with non-UA/LH flights.

                Thanks to all!
                What does your friend want to use the miles for? It really will determine the best solution.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Yeah, I actually spent an hour or so trolling the boards for an answer to this dilemma (FT really flames people who don't search) and read through this entire thread...though your summary makes it digestible.

                  I'm leaning towards M&M since she really doesn't know or care about mileage programs and is a beginner. Since she almost always purchases full C or F tickets (she was pissed she couldn't find one to buy on the TPE=>LAX segment), I'm figuring she'll only use the miles to upgrade...but when she can't, she'd like to hold onto them instead of have them expire. LH's program is also the richest in terms of banked miles. Combine that with the three year qualification discussion and it appears hard to beat.

                  You're 100% sure about the Frequent Traveler miles not expiring, right? LH's T&C's are very gray as they state that "Miles will expire 36 months..." not even referencing HON or SEN or Frequent Traveler. I hate it when websites are so poor -- having the same problem with AF...
                  HUGE AL

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by DeltaFlyingProf View Post
                    What does your friend want to use the miles for? It really will determine the best solution.
                    Ahhhh DeltaFlyingProf, you beat me to the posting.

                    As mentioned above, she is still figuring out this FFP thing. AMAZING since she's been traveling all her life. But since it's always been in paid C or F, I guess this can happen. How? I have no idea. hahaha

                    So I'm going with my assumption she's only going to use it to upgrade from C to F...pretty much the same as me since full award tickets are getting harder and harder to book on the routes you want.
                    HUGE AL

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      She must be prepared to earn all the required EQMs very early in the year for the 3 year thing to work. A carefully planned CRWSTAR should do the trick.

                      Originally posted by HUGE AL View Post
                      You're 100% sure about the Frequent Traveler miles not expiring, right? LH's T&C's are very gray as they state that "Miles will expire 36 months..." not even referencing HON or SEN or Frequent Traveler. I hate it when websites are so poor -- having the same problem with AF...
                      http://www.miles-and-more.com/online...&nodeid=499167

                      Award miles

                      * can be exchanged for flight, upgrade, travel, experience or other awards.
                      * remain valid for 36 months after the date they were earned, expiring at the end of the quarter concerned.
                      * remain valid indefinitely for Frequent Travellers, Senators and
                      HON Circle members for as long as they retain such status.
                      * remain valid indefinitely for holders of a Lufthansa Miles & More Credit Card issued in Germany.
                      * remain valid indefinitely for holders of a Miles & More Credit Card in the following countries.
                      Last edited by KeithMEL; 25 July 2007, 03:08 PM.
                      All opinions shared are my own, and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other organisation of which I'm affiliated to.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I received my Frequent Traveller card & pack this very morning. It is clearly spelt out that my miles won't expire, as long as I remain FTL.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Hi HUGE AL. Welcome to SQTalk.
                          You have mentioned about the reason as for "mileage upgrade possibility." The one other factor is the location of the person, as well as the most usual pattern of the travel. For example, since you mention she always pays in C or F, if the routing she usually flown is only 2-class service, "mileage upgrade possibility" would not really beneficial; unless she buys Y tix.

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                          • #58
                            Ahhh...very cool... I didn't know they had their own website. From the LH USA site, the mileage requirements for the tiers is a bit different (lower), but this page is much more informative.

                            Originally posted by CGK View Post
                            Hi HUGE AL. Welcome to SQTalk.
                            You have mentioned about the reason as for "mileage upgrade possibility." The one other factor is the location of the person, as well as the most usual pattern of the travel. For example, since you mention she always pays in C or F, if the routing she usually flown is only 2-class service, "mileage upgrade possibility" would not really beneficial; unless she buys Y tix.
                            CGK, thanks for the reply...AWESOME (though I'm still curious as to what you do that allows you to travel ATW so much...)! She's in LAX and her travel patterns are pretty much the same as this itinerary. She'll usually either go East or West, but more often than not, she'll pretty much match this route.

                            Sorry, what I meant was: if she's in C and there's an F available, that's when she'll trigger her mileage usage. If it's only a 2-class (or an upgrade is not available), she'll sit in her paid C seat and (she's said this many times) give her miles to her friends.

                            I've never seen so much FFP...um...what's a nice way to put this...lack of caring/knowledge... She's been extremely resistant to crediting this journey...until just the other day when a bunch of us brought her around...
                            Last edited by HUGE AL; 26 July 2007, 05:05 AM.
                            HUGE AL

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by LZ-HMI View Post
                              I received my Frequent Traveller card & pack this very morning. It is clearly spelt out that my miles won't expire, as long as I remain FTL.
                              There's one more thing to keep in mind:

                              LH miles do not expire as long as you hold any status (HON, SEN or FTL). If you lose status you entire mileage balance is treated as if you earned it on the day you lost your status, and is given the full three year validity your miles would be subject to on a blue account. If you requalify for status at some point during this three year period, the miles go back to indefinite validity, and will be reset with an expiration date three years after the date you lose this new status.

                              I hope that made sense. I'll give you an example.

                              Say you earn 50K miles on a trip as a blue member in August 2007.

                              These miles are valid until 30 September 2010 (end of the quarter you earned them, plus three years).

                              In June 2010, you qualify for SEN. Your miles from 2007 are saved from expiry. Your status is valid until February 2013.

                              You don't manage to requalify SEN by 2013. LH bumps you down to FTL. That status is valid until February 2016.

                              You don't manage to requalify FTL by 2016. Your status disappears entirely. Your miles are now set with an expiration date of 31 March 2019 (end of the quarter plus three years).

                              If you requalify for FTL by March 2019, all miles are valid as long as your status is, plus another three years.

                              If you know how to play the game, it's incredibly difficult to let your LH miles expire.


                              Oh, and by the way - it's no longer just the German LH credit card that keeps your miles active indefinitely.

                              http://www.miles-and-more.com/online...st=96807496701

                              It's mostly other European countries though, Japan being the notable exception.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                hey guys ive given up trying to work out how many miles i would earn from

                                BNE - SIN -FRA - DUBLIN return using M and M from scratch i.e no status in J class

                                the calculator on m n m doesnt even have brisbane or dublin as an option

                                i was wondering if someone was kind enough to let me kno how many miles i would earn including the 25% bonus i would probably earn on the way back somewhere.

                                After reading this incredibly informative post and a similiar one we have with BD - i have decided to pursue for HON in the next two years than do an extended run over 3 years for liftime gold at BD for the sole fact that i just cant place any long term trust in the future of the BD program - cash and miles is a great option - but how long it lasts is anyones guess - i think its just that its more secure when u know an airline like lufthansa will be around for many years to come

                                am i wrong in this or have i chose the correct option?
                                _________________________________

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