Confirmed : SQ to start flights to DUS

[SQ025]

BRU is very much closer to AMS than DUS and CX is also looking at BRU..

The distances between BRU and DUS, AMS and DUS, BRU and AMS are almost equal.

I'm not sure why SQ began ARN when they could have gone daily A350 on CPH and used their partnership with SK, but possibly because that plane would otherwise sit at DME for longer. ARN allows them to offer more regular flights to DME by adding overall passenger numbers and it doesn't cost them much in terms of plane availability as it fills in a gap. The costs would be whatever fuel is required DME-ARN-DME, but significantly the extra crewing and layover arrangements.

I get why SQ prefers such an arrangement if they have two destination where they don't know if they can fill a plane with point-to-point. But I still believe they should have gone rather direct with lower frequency to ARN if they want to pull passengers from TG. Why should someone switch over to SQ, I would rather connect in BKK than DME, the product of TG is not bad either and usually price on TG is cheaper anyway.

I love the idea of VIE (it's the European city I spend the second-most amount of time in after DUS), but it possibly suffers the same problems that flying to BER would- not enough business traffic, too many tourists.

DUS doesn't get the tourists and doesn't have enough biz-traffic, so maybe that's why VIE could work.

[259850]

DUS doesn't get the tourists and doesn't have enough biz-traffic, so maybe that's why VIE could work.

VIE is a potential TR destination.

My bet for SQ: SIN-ARN and SIN-DME-OSL

[SQ228]

The distances between BRU and DUS, AMS and DUS, BRU and AMS are almost equal.

On a map, yes. I guess in my mind I was thinking of connectivity.

You could validly argue that SQ shouldn't bother with either BRU or DUS. It's a 90 minute train trip direct from AMS Schiphol to the centre of Bruxelles with an hourly frequency. The exact same is true of FRA Fernbahnhof to the centre of DUS. AMS to DUS by train though takes an extra hour and runs far less frequently involving a change in Utrecht.

VIE or BER would be much closer to Eastern Europe rather than concentrating so many destinations around AMS/CDG/BRU/DUS/FRA. I'm not sure if those areas support any more business traffic though. We've argued about this on the forum previously and some people who really know the economics and demand of business travel out of Germany/Central Europe have been fairly pessimistic about moving away from FRA/MUC/ZRH.

[SQ025]

You could validly argue that SQ shouldn't bother with either BRU or DUS. It's a 90 minute train trip direct from AMS Schiphol to the centre of Bruxelles with an hourly frequency. The exact same is true of FRA Fernbahnhof to the centre of DUS. AMS to DUS by train though takes an extra hour and runs far less frequently involving a change in Utrecht.

For DUS the lack of connecting flights IMHO is the issue. While theoretically the area surounding DUS is densly populated, it doesnt translate into enough demand for a destination like SIN/OZ (vice versa similar situation). So connecting flight could help to fill the plane. BRU can offer that, and could make it more viable to fill the plane, BRU is also better connected to the Highspeed Railway Network which offers an advantage in comparision to DUS.

We've argued about this on the forum previously and some people who really know the economics and demand of business travel out of Germany/Central Europe have been fairly pessimistic about moving away from FRA/MUC/ZRH.

I agree with this opinion concerning BER, THIS would be a destination for TR. VIE on the other hand could work from my point of view with a mix of leisure/business.

[SQ025]

VIE is a potential TR destination.

My bet for SQ: SIN-ARN and SIN-DME-OSL

The LCC business model out of SIN will only work either between SIN and big cities (in Europe i see only London and Paris) or if TR copies the model they operate to North Asia with an intermediate stop in between if they plan to go to second tier cities.

SIN-DME-OSL, i dont see how this could work. BKK-DME-OSL could work.

[Dobbo]

I suppose this cuts to the heart of SQ's strategy to compete with the MEB3 in Europe. Do you focus capacity at the major European nodes and rely on *A connections, or do you spread your net thinly and maximise the number of one stop connections?

[SQ228]

I suppose this cuts to the heart of SQ's strategy to compete with the MEB3 in Europe. Do you focus capacity at the major European nodes and rely on *A connections, or do you spread your net thinly and maximise the number of one stop connections?

That's the exact purpose of the A350 and is SQ's strategy and we've seen them launch a few routes with it as well as de-couple existing 1-stop routes. Unfortunately it will also become the strategy of other competitors, of course. The lighter smaller aircraft are more adaptable to changes in passenger numbers. This I see is why the A380 isn't working for SQ in some ways and why they keep moving them around. In low season they are difficult to utilise but in high season there aren't enough of them. Over-stretch the fleet at peak season and there's a nightmare to clean up if one of themhas to be pulled from service, purely because of how many passengers they carry/strand.

EK might be doing well now with it's 97-strong fleet of A380s but it's a precarious position to be in, in my opinion, if subsidised oil stops giving them an advantage over other airlines. Not to mention the inevitable task of having to offload used A380s...

[Metropolitan Airlines]

VIE is a potential TR destination.

I oppose VIE being a TR destination:

1. TR is not a member of Star Alliance, if SIA Group deploy TR to VIE, then they will need to rely on O&D passengers. Is O&D passenger demand that high? I doubt

2. SQ is in a Joint Venture agreement with Lufthansa group, that means all routes to Lufthansa and its group affiliates destinations are included in the JV. If SIA Group decides to deploy TR to VIE, this is destroying the JV agreement.

3. VIE is very close to other commercial and business hubs in Central Europe. Thus if we deploy TR, it is not attracting business passengers, thus low yield.

My suggestion is: Expand the SIA-Lufthansa JV, Transfer DUS from SQ to TR, Launch VIE using SQ A359, LH launch TXL-SIN with A359. Then I think the network will be pretty complete.

My bet for SQ: SIN-ARN and SIN-DME-OSL

Why not SIN-ARN-OSL? I think this enable the like minded countries and cultures being on the same route to Singapore, with a short hop and they are in Samui or Phuket. Wouldn't that will be more attractive?

[ek&sq]

My suggestion is: Expand the SIA-Lufthansa JV, Transfer DUS from SQ to TR, Launch VIE using SQ A359, LH launch TXL-SIN with A359. Then I think the network will be pretty complete.

Unless the existing JV agreement has been amended, it is highly unlikely you will see TR flying to Germany, Switzerland or Austria. The only carriers included in the JV are LH, LX, OS and SQ. Any affiliate/subsidiary flying between these countries and SIN would violate the agreement.

[SQ_326]

I oppose VIE being a TR destination:

1. TR is not a member of Star Alliance, if SIA Group deploy TR to VIE, then they will need to rely on O&D passengers. Is O&D passenger demand that high? I doubt

2. SQ is in a Joint Venture agreement with Lufthansa group, that means all routes to Lufthansa and its group affiliates destinations are included in the JV. If SIA Group decides to deploy TR to VIE, this is destroying the JV agreement.

3. VIE is very close to other commercial and business hubs in Central Europe. Thus if we deploy TR, it is not attracting business passengers, thus low yield.

My suggestion is: Expand the SIA-Lufthansa JV, Transfer DUS from SQ to TR, Launch VIE using SQ A359, LH launch TXL-SIN with A359. Then I think the network will be pretty complete.



Why not SIN-ARN-OSL? I think this enable the like minded countries and cultures being on the same route to Singapore, with a short hop and they are in Samui or Phuket. Wouldn't that will be more attractive?

Load of SQ326 is struggling, if SQ launches VIE with A359 then SQ326 will face a lower load and may be viable at all.

[Metropolitan Airlines]

Unless the existing JV agreement has been amended, it is highly unlikely you will see TR flying to Germany, Switzerland or Austria. The only carriers included in the JV are LH, LX, OS and SQ. Any affiliate/subsidiary flying between these countries and SIN would violate the agreement.

You're right. And if you read the sentence before I did call for an expansion of the current JV agreement to allow EW and TR to tie up.

There are going to be more and more long haul LCC flying from Europe to Singapore, such as Norwegian. And I think to deal with this challenge, allowing EW and TR to tie up and to provide connections to Scoot thru at DUS will allow more budget travellers to choose SIA group of airlines to fly to Europe.

[Dobbo]

I'd not realised Scoot had inherited Tigerair's AOC.

Not to say they cannot open elsewhere, but I understand Scoot are to open a number of one stop routes between Manchester and Singapore via a number of Indian airports.

http://m.businesstoday.in/story/sing.../1/259642.html

I understand this is about taking on the MEB3 on the unserved Manchester to India market as an extension to Scoot's existing India services, rather than chipping away at SQ51/52 which is to continue in substantively the current format.

Slightly detached from the Central European flying discussion, but something to consider when analysing the wider SQ group's European strategy.

[Metropolitan Airlines]

Load of SQ326 is struggling, if SQ launches VIE with A359 then SQ326 will face a lower load and may be viable at all.

Well. I wonder whether the low loading of SQ326 is due to the following factors:

1. Connectivity with Australian flights: SQ212 cannot connect SQ326, which is a big con. Whilst SQ 218 and SQ 246 passengers will need to wait for half a day to connect with this flight which makes it unpopular.

2. Connectivity with European flights: When SQ326 arrives in Europe it is already 8pm. Plus at least 1-2 hours time to clear customs and transfer, what kind of European flights can it connect to without arriving my final destination close to midnight local time, or I would be forced to stay at FRA overnight?

Therefore if SQ doesn't want SQ326 to continue struggling, they should make the departure time earlier to accommodate more European connections.

Adding VIE will undoubtedly lure away some connecting passengers at FRA, however, I think VIE has excellent land transport connections that is suitable for either a Red Eye or Morning or early afternoon departure from Singapore.

(Of course this needs to take into consideration of Australian and NZ flight arrival times since any European service ex-SIN will be dead without AU, NZ, MY and HK passengers connecting through Singapore.

[Dobbo]

Am I right in thinking the issue is that SQ326 cannot connect to the inbound bank from Australia and NZ? Going the other way, does SQ325 connect well to the early morning bank to Australia and NZ?

[9V-SPL]

I think half or more of the passengers on SQ326 are German tourists who connect from MI175 from DPS and MI751 from HKT.