Vietnam Airlines Joins Skyteam (Scaryteam for KeithMEL)

MH told BA/QF that they don't want to end up being a feeder airline to these two, and told them that MH will join only if both BA & QF move their hubs from SIN to KUL.

QF/BA laughed and said selamat jalan to MH !

Oh well lah! What a difference a year makes....

[MSPeconomist]

Busan was only mentioned as there it has long bee a running joke/sore on here of how difficult it was to get too. That's why I mentioned VN fly there as well of lots of other local places in S.E Asia in heavy demand. ScaryTeam have had a very big hole in their Asian network for a long time, VN will fill some of that.



Because they're crap, and I say this as an ex KL FD Plat of a number of years. I do love Schiphol though to be fair.



I don't think you'll find many European wanting to fly via NRT to S.E. Asia to be honest, as nice as the lounges are..



It' silly bordering on farcical that MH are not in ScaryTeam. Some people need their heads banging together.

1. To me, the bigger hole is New Zealand and most of Australia. I don't fly LCCs.

2. If a European does SkyTeam, chances are that they do fly KLM and/or AF. AZ is much much worse in every way. Also, the Dutch seem to like KLM service, food, and wine selections. Similarly, some of the French like AF, perhaps because they speak French.

3. Not necessarily to Southeast Asia; KLM and AF have nonstops from AMS and CDG to major airports. However, for Inchon or Pusan, NRT would make sense. For other airports in Japan, the trick is to avoid having to change airports at Tokyo, so the once-a-day flights to KIX, NGO, etc. on DL make sense for connections.

4. DL has already shown that it doesn't play well with other airlines. NW did well in this dimension and DL is doing a trash-and-burn. Other examples are the old NW/KL joint venture with connections through AMS, the cooperation with Alaska, including upgrades and lounges, and of course the end of the FF arrangement with SQ.

[MAN Flyer]

IIRC DL serves NRT-Busan, starting from the end of the NW era; I think it's been a 757, which probably means a bus gate at NRT most days. Also, surely KE has some Busan flights to major Asian airports.

Busan was only mentioned as there it has long bee a running joke/sore on here of how difficult it was to get too. That's why I mentioned VN fly there as well of lots of other local places in S.E Asia in heavy demand. ScaryTeam have had a very big hole in their Asian network for a long time, VN will fill some of that.

Why should Europeans avoid KLM except for their short-haul intra-EU flights?

Because they're crap, and I say this as an ex KL FD Plat of a number of years. I do love Schiphol though to be fair.

Another choice for Europeans is the AF CDG-NRT followed by DL (old NW) connections within Asia. SkyTeam has some nice lounges at NRT.

I don't think you'll find many European wanting to fly via NRT to S.E. Asia to be honest, as nice as the lounges are..

I'm not sure I want to fly them and I'm sorry that we don't have the MH network choices.

It' silly bordering on farcical that MH are not in ScaryTeam. Some people need their heads banging together.

[Kyo]

You've heard of VN status-matching *G, jhm?

[jhm]

confusing to have gold as lowest tier, there should be some consistency within alliances at least

It's great when you status match and (as has happened in the past) an airline matches based on colour alone!

AF is even worse - probably the rudest cabin crew around the globe.

My experience has only been around ten domestic AF flights but the cabin crew have all been absolutely charming. YMMV.

[FlyingDan]

I guess I found my new FPP for ST .

Why should Europeans avoid KLM except for their short-haul intra-EU flights?

Their C product is appalling, the only thing which is remotely good is the food. However, nothing compared to the SQ catering ex-LHR or BTC, for example. 2-3-2 in C on their 77W, so you even have chance of ending up in the middle seat in C .

Another choice for Europeans is the AF CDG-NRT followed by DL (old NW) connections within Asia.

AF is even worse - probably the rudest cabin crew around the globe.

[MSPeconomist]

The Big Question is: What new routes does VN open up for those of us in ST?

VN may now be the BD of SkyTeam: Just 50,000 miles to SkyTeamElite Plus. I haven't figured out whether fare requirements make that impracticable.

Another question that's being asked is whether it will open up better award availability.

This is the first time I've seen their levels listed. I don't like their choice of metals (confusing to have gold as lowest tier, there should be some consistency within alliances at least) and I'm shocked at the low requirements for SkyTeam Elite Plus as well as the generous bonuses for "elites" flying very few miles.

Actually, if you take off the USA-tinted spectacles , they offer quite a bit for those in other parts of the world like Europe and Australia, mainly one stop kangaroo routes from CDG (which is what AF will be interested in) and FRA to SYD and MEL. They are also supposed to be closer to getting their wish of flights to London, apparently waiting for slots at LHR to be donated/offered from another ST member.

In addition to this, they also offer a decent S.E. Asia network (they even fly to Busan !!) for European ST members who don't fly KL. This is the first ST member in the thick of the action around BKK/SIN etc. ICN/KE are too far out for Europeans to offer any meaningful network around there.

I agree with those who bemoan MH not being in there, but there seems to be no sign of a thawing in the relationship between them and AF (who have been against them joining) any time soon.

I am currently VN Silver so presumably will now become ST Silver. Is that worth anything ?.

IIRC DL serves NRT-Busan, starting from the end of the NW era; I think it's been a 757, which probably means a bus gate at NRT most days. Also, surely KE has some Busan flights to major Asian airports.

Why should Europeans avoid KLM except for their short-haul intra-EU flights? Another choice for Europeans is the AF CDG-NRT followed by DL (old NW) connections within Asia. SkyTeam has some nice lounges at NRT.

I'm not sure I want to fly them and I'm sorry that we don't have the MH network choices.

[Guy Betsy]

oneworld membership was handed to them on a silver platter as I recall:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_62527183/

No idea what happened there in the end, but I suspect MH isn't entirely thrilled about QF's rather large hub down in SIN.

MH told BA/QF that they don't want to end up being a feeder airline to these two, and told them that MH will join only if both BA & QF move their hubs from SIN to KUL.

QF/BA laughed and said selamat jalan to MH !

[KeithMEL]

MH has long been invited to join not only Skyteam but once upon a time ago to Oneworld even...

oneworld membership was handed to them on a silver platter as I recall:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_62527183/

No idea what happened there in the end, but I suspect MH isn't entirely thrilled about QF's rather large hub down in SIN.

[Guy Betsy]

Boooo! Instead of appointing MH, they chose this airline (apology in advance and no disrespect to VN fans).

MH has long been invited to join not only Skyteam but once upon a time ago to Oneworld even... but it is MH who declined joining a full alliance. So if you want to blame anyone... blame on MH management. However I didn't know about the AF/MH affair...!

It is the arrogance of MH management who believes that people will switch carriers to fly with "Malaysian Hospitality". When will this ulu people understand the importance of an alliance. That people will switch from MH to other carriers even if the fare is different or route is longer?

[MAN Flyer]

How's VN program compared to other Skyteam members?

I am afraid I don't know anything about the Golden Lotus programme. I have held Silver for a few years now by accident rather than by design due to regular domestic hops in J and a smattering of SGN-BKK/SIN/CAN.

A friend of mine who earned a stack of miles did once go into one of their offices a few years back to see what he could do with his miles and got very short shrift from some rather bemused VN staff who thought he was rather strange wanting to actually do something with his miles.

[SilverChris]

Boooo! Instead of appointing MH, they chose this airline (apology in advance and no disrespect to VN fans).

+1! I thought if MH were to join an alliance it would be SkyTeam. That leaves OW now.. though highly unlikely IMO

[KeithMEL]

Well that started years ago over slots that MH wanted at CDG. AF used their power there to block them getting them initially but MH then cleverly used the fact that at the time the French were attempting to sell some Scorpene Submarines to the RMN, and asked the Government to insist MH got the slots at CDG as part of the deal. They did this, which left AF fuming and they still don't seem to have got over it.

You know what the French are like....

Haha nice one! Intriguing...

[MAN Flyer]

I'm a little baffled by the exclusion of MH also, considering the strong relationship they've had with KL. No idea why the animosity between MH and AF -

Well that started years ago over slots that MH wanted at CDG. AF used their power there to block them getting them initially but MH then cleverly used the fact that at the time the French were attempting to sell some Scorpene Submarines to the RMN, and asked the Government to insist MH got the slots at CDG as part of the deal. They did this, which left AF fuming and they still don't seem to have got over it.

You know what the French are like....

[KeithMEL]

Actually, if you take off the USA-tinted spectacles , they offer quite a bit for those in other parts of the world like Europe and Australia, mainly one stop kangaroo routes from CDG (which is what AF will be interested in) and FRA to SYD and MEL. They are also supposed to be closer to getting their wish of flights to London, apparently waiting for slots at LHR to be donated/offered from another ST member.

Along with GA's reasonable coverage of SE Asia, the inclusion of VN seems to present ST as a credible competitor to *A in the region, numbers-wise.

I'm a little baffled by the exclusion of MH also, considering the strong relationship they've had with KL. No idea why the animosity between MH and AF - AF currently has a codeshare agreement with QF on routes between Australia and CDG via SIN and HKG, you'd think they'd rather keep the traffic in-house and add to the traditional KL/MH relationship on Europe-Oz routes. Oh well, at least that might mean there is some small possibility that MH will join OW.