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Not a TR but a BR: *A RTW Booking on United. (RTW TR to come)

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  • Not a TR but a BR: *A RTW Booking on United. (RTW TR to come)

    Hello!

    I wanted to share some sort of another thing, again, with you: not a Trip Report but a Booking Report.

    Foreplay
    To be honest, I felt a little homesick. I've been living in Melbourne for some time in my early childhood and I haven't been there for some time now. I also have not set foot on an SQ aircraft for about four or five years and being on SQTalk, I felt a strong urge to fly SQ again. Another strong argument for flying down-under was to try flying the A380.

    So I made my research and found out that a trip to Australia would cost me about 1500 Euros (Melbourne only and no A380). KeithMEL suggested that I might should look into Star Alliance RTW fares and that's what I did. Another SQTalk meet in NY was coming up and I wanted to meet jhm and phaleesy for a long time now, so it was very convenient for me to combine these trips.

    I looked into the fares and I decided that I want to take the *RTW Special. 26K miles for a base fare of EUR 2099 in Y seemed like a real bargain and I was planning to do a bigger RTW once I get my Bachelor's degree in February 09 or so. So this special fare came in handy to support me in my plans to probably have 2 RTWS.

    So I talked to KeithMEL and did my research and decided to book with United Airlines, as they don't add as much fuel tax as other carriers like Austrian, Lufthansa or Swiss do.

    It was finally time to play around a bit with the Star Alliance RTW tool and the first route I came up with was:

    VIE-ZRH-SIN-SYD-MEL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE

    After some more playing around, I found out that flying to AKL from MEL was within the miles and I always wanted to fly Air New Zealand anyway. I prefer NZ to UA any time, though I have never been on NZ it was always clear to me that I want to fly them asap. So my routing was:

    VIE-ZRH-SIN-SYD-MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE

    After some time, I rechecked that route and it seems like *A made adjustments to the milage counts, so I suddenly found my trip to be slightly over 26k. So I settled for MXP. I definitely wanted to try out the 77W.

    The booking
    So I called up UA Frankfurt to check if my booking was valid. The first hiccough was, when the UA agent told me that the MXP flight was already cramped and I could not get that flight. I simulaneously talked to KeithMEL on MSN where he told me to ask about going thru DME. It worked and the rest of the route cleared. Well, at least most of it ... when I asked about SYD-MEL flights, she said I could take EK. I asked her if she was certain because EK isn't even in Star Alliance. She put me on hold and apologized for her mistake. It seems like this was actually her first RTW booking, or at least her first RTW Special booking as she booked me into the booking class M instead of H. So after my first of many calls, i had this route:

    VIE-DME-SIN-SYD-MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE

    But as the lady screwed up on the booking class routing I had to call again and let them sort out this problem. I also wanted to book myself to Pacific Premium Economy on the AKL-LAX leg on NZ as this was, at least according to *A rules, possible for a surcharge of about 300 US$. The new agent noted this and my first legit routing went through ticketing.

    On the next day I was clearly surprised when I called, that the trip was only 2260 EUR. I checked again and she took out the E class on NZ. I told her to re-add it because I assumed she may have made a mistake. She told me that upgrading is not possible, though *A rules clearly say so.

    I tried with about for different UA FRA agents but they all came to the same conclusion. So I called UA USA where a lady answered and told me that this is not possible. As I told her to speak to her supervisor, because he might have more info, she mumbled something and laid up on me! This never ever happened to me in my entire life before that an official sales representative laid up on me.

    Consequently I was pretty pissed and decided to try booking with NZ. The NZ lady I told about the E+ incident, told me that UA clearly violates the rules here but there is nothing she could do as she cannot access my booking. As this lady was very nice and forthcoming, I decided to book with NZ and abandon my UA itinerary. I cancelled my trip on UA late in the evening and the NZ office already shut down.

    So KeithMEL was kind enough to help me out and booked it over the phone directly in NZ. The booking went smoothly but they weren't able to tax the price in EUR, so they sent the reservation to NZ LON, whom I called the next day. They found my booking and forwarded it to the nice NZ lady in BRU who told me it might be better for me to book on LH or OS (first segment should get the booking!) and that the fuel surcharges were not that low on NZ as well.

    Haha ... so I went back to United to re-book from scratch and leave out the E+. At least I had my A380 and quite a few SQ flights.

    Meanwhile I also spoke to SQFlyergirl about my trip and I decided to make a short hop to KUL, as it was clearly within my milage limit to go for a cup of coffee or so.

    The booking went through as planned:

    VIE-DME-SIN-KUL-SIN-SYD-MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE.

    I was happy and content to finally have a finished itinerary when KeithMEL came to me and told me about recent problems with the UA flight from SYD to MEL. I clearly violate Australian traffic rights boarding this flight and recently, the number of passengers denied boarding increased. I did not want this to happen, so after some 2-3 days of thinking this through, checking back with agents etc. I came up with this:

    VIE-DME-SIN-KUL-SIN-SYD-interlined sector to MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE

    and the SYD-MEL flights paid on QF. I know this might not be the best solution but this is the first time in ages I'm somehow able to fly as much as I want and in order to maximize miles, I ditched the interlining sector and planned my last routing:

    Final ittinerary
    03/08 --- VIE-DME --- OS0601 --- 32S --- 10:45 --- 15:30
    03/08 --- DME-SIN --- SQ0061 --- 77W --- 21:15 --- 11:30 (+1)
    04/08 --- SIN-KUL --- SQ0112 --- 772 --- 15:10 --- 16:05
    05/08 --- KUL-SIN --- SQ0109 --- 772 --- 14:30 --- 15:25
    07/08 --- SIN-SYD --- SQ0221 --- 380 --- 20:35 --- 05:55 (+1)
    08/08 --- SYD-MEL --- QF0074 --- 744 --- 07:15 --- 08:45
    14/08 --- MEL-SYD --- QF0402 --- 738 --- 07:45 --- 09:05
    14/08 --- SYD-AKL --- NZ0704 --- 32S --- 11:30 --- 16:30
    17/08 --- AKL-LAX --- NZ0002 --- 744 --- 21:30 --- 14:30
    20/08 --- LAX-JFK --- UA0022 --- 752 --- 08:29 --- 16:59
    25/08 --- JFK-FRA --- SQ0025 --- 744 --- 21:05 --- 11:15 (+1)
    26/08 --- FRA-AMS --- LH4676 --- 73S --- 12:50 --- 14:00
    26/08 --- AMS-CPH --- SK1550 --- M80 --- 17:15 --- 18:35
    26/08 --- CPH-VIE --- OS0306 --- 737 --- 20:10 --- 21:50

    I am looking forward to meeting everyone I meet on my journey... SQFlyergirl in KL, KeithMEL and taipeiflyer in MEL and phaleesy & jhm in NY. I hope I did not forget to mention anybody but if you want to meet up in SIN, LAX, or wherever I might be ... just tell me

    I will definitely keep you folks posted!

    xoxo
    Home is where your heart is.

  • #2
    Looking forward to welcoming you to MEL, Flo. I'm sorry that your first RTW booking was such a discouraging experience. I suppose this is where a good TA should come in handy. And thanks for writing all that up, I'm sure it'd provide a useful guide to anyone wishing to purchase such a ticket.

    But now the hard part is over and you can look forward to enjoying the trip!

    Anyone organising a RTW with UA (or UA FRA at least) should have something strong to administer close by. They clearly invented their own version of the rules with the refusal to upgrade NZ flights to Premium Economy. It was frustrating to say the least hearing of Flo's stressful attempts via msn (in real time) to get an agent who knows the rules. They have "guidelines" which suggest 'book everything in H' but they've obviously missed paragraph 12 of the Star file "surcharges" which clearly states an upgrade to NZ Premium Economy is possible for a surcharge.

    Flo didn't mention it in his post but booking the identical itinerary with NZ resulted in EUR300 extra in fuel fines. A stark difference to say the least. IME, after dealing with both oneworld and *A airlines on these products - US carriers tend to charge less for fuel than European or Asia Pacific carriers.

    So.... more fuel fines vs competence in this case...

    And no it doesn't have to be the first carrier which issues the booking. Any carrier participating in the itinerary would do (or any carrier period for oneworld RTWs!). I don't know if there are any advantages as far as the airlines are concerned when it comes to issuing the booking via first carrier, but it seems to be a common misconception encouraged by lazy airline agents passing the buck. Again a case of in theory vs in practise for this one, and experience suggests that the way revenue is divided up on these tickets mean that airlines would be reluctant to issue the ticket if they aren't getting the major segments out of the ticket.

    And just to clarify the bit about booking the SYD-MEL segment on UA: they are only allowed to book pax on that segment standalone if an itinerary has "online stopover or connecting traffic." They've turned a blind eye to this in the past and have allowed pax with connections on other *A carriers to board the SYD-MEL shuttle. But it is in clear violation of their traffic rights and the Australian government has started fining UA recently. So you'd now only be able to board UA flights between SYD and MEL if you've got UA metal transpacific (and it can be a stopover in SYD or MEL).

    The US government has fined QF for mistakenly carrying pax between JFK and LAX without QF international segments in their itinerary. A case of tit for tat ? Who knows...
    Last edited by KeithMEL; 18 May 2008, 04:34 AM.
    All opinions shared are my own, and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other organisation of which I'm affiliated to.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by florianwagner View Post
      The booking went through as planned:

      VIE-DME-SIN-KUL-SIN-SYD-MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE.

      I was happy and content to finally have a finished itinerary when KeithMEL came to me and told me about recent problems with the UA flight from SYD to MEL. I clearly violate Australian traffic rights boarding this flight and recently, the number of passengers denied boarding increased. I did not want this to happen, so after some 2-3 days of thinking this through, checking back with agents etc. I came up with this:

      VIE-DME-SIN-KUL-SIN-SYD-interlined sector to MEL-AKL-LAX-JFK-FRA-VIE

      and the SYD-MEL flights paid on QF. I know this might not be the best solution but this is the first time in ages I'm somehow able to fly as much as I want and in order to maximize miles, I ditched the interlining sector and planned my last routing:
      First of all, congratulations for your successful booking.
      But, would you care to elaborate why you think you VIOLATE traffic rights? Is there any changes in the RTW rules? AFAIK, SYD-MEL or MEL-SYD on UA is a conditional international traffic right. As long as the booking is connected to an international flight, it should be fine, and it doesn't have to be UA international flights.
      Thanks.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SQ LPP View Post
        But, would you care to elaborate why you think you VIOLATE traffic rights? Is there any changes in the RTW rules? AFAIK, SYD-MEL or MEL-SYD on UA is a conditional international traffic right. As long as the booking is connected to an international flight, it should be fine, and it doesn't have to be UA international flights.
        See my post above.

        They are quite strict on this now and UA in Australia will deny boarding if you do not have UA metal transpacific ("online stopover/connecting traffic"). On a RTW this would mean having to make your own way to MEL on a walk up JQ/QF/DJ fare, and having to pay the USD125 to reissue the ticket since your coupons are now out of sequence. They might or might not wear the costs if the ticket is originally issued by UA but it's still unnecessary stress to try to risk it.
        All opinions shared are my own, and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other organisation of which I'm affiliated to.

        Comment


        • #5
          What you are saying is the rules for the RTW has been changed due to the conditional traffic right between SYD-MEL on UA has been amended by a new additional restriction that UA as the only international carrier?

          If someone has the detail rules printed, please update here. I recalled I was shown the details rule of this "conditional traffic right for UA SYD-MEL-SYD" which showed on RTW as any *A international flights as long as it's part of the itinerary, not a stand alone booking.

          Oh well, I am not the expert. We all know who is the RTW guy here in this forum.

          Cheers..
          Have a great weekend everyone.

          Comment


          • #6
            Excellent news, Flo! I look forward to meeting you in NYC (and later in VIE)!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SQ LPP View Post
              What you are saying is the rules for the RTW has been changed due to the conditional traffic right between SYD-MEL on UA has been amended by a new additional restriction that UA as the only international carrier?

              If someone has the detail rules printed, please update here. I recalled I was shown the details rule of this "conditional traffic right for UA SYD-MEL-SYD" which showed on RTW as any *A international flights as long as it's part of the itinerary, not a stand alone booking..
              Nothing has changed. This has nothing to do with RTW rules, but UA's Australian traffic rights.
              UA has started to enforce the rules governing its traffic rights between SYD and MEL after getting fined. You're legally only able to fly UA between SYD and MEL standalone if you've got UA metal transpacific. You might slip through and be able to issue such an itinerary if the issuing location or your TA isn't aware of this, but UA can and will deny you boarding if you've got no UA metal transpacific.
              All opinions shared are my own, and are not necessarily those of my employer or any other organisation of which I'm affiliated to.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by florianwagner View Post
                am looking forward to meeting everyone I meet on my journey... SQFlyergirl in KL, KeithMEL and taipeiflyer in MEL and phaleesy & jhm in NY.
                Top people to meet up with, anywhere in the world. I certainly don't see enough of the last two in my home city!

                Congrats on booking your RTW, flo.
                ‘Lean into the sharp points’

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for BR. Look forward to seeing you Aug 4

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is something new! Never came across a BR before

                    Maybe I will make a trip down to MEL to meet fellow SQTalkers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KeithMEL View Post
                      Nothing has changed. This has nothing to do with RTW rules, but UA's Australian traffic rights.
                      UA has started to enforce the rules governing its traffic rights between SYD and MEL after getting fined. You're legally only able to fly UA between SYD and MEL standalone if you've got UA metal transpacific. You might slip through and be able to issue such an itinerary if the issuing location or your TA isn't aware of this, but UA can and will deny you boarding if you've got no UA metal transpacific.
                      It is the same situation with QF and JFK-LAX. Legally they can carry international passengers. However the airline chooses to apply an even more strict interpretation and only allow international passengers connecting to/from their own flights (a stopover in SYD for UA and LAX for QF is allowed but the international flight has to be UA or QF respectively).
                      ..

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