Krisflyer and Mileage Plus compared

[d_exmen]

WOW... You guys are really getting ripped off. I have UA milage Plus and I use them to fly SQ to Vietnam from SFO or LAX. Award ticket are: Economy-60K miles, Business - 90K, and First - 120K. I always called UA and request for SQ flight. I never use upgrade since my company buys C-Class tix for road warriors.

[taipeiflyer]

here's a math lesson for you d_exmen: you fly first on SQ taipei to los angeles and earn 10,182 pps miles plus 1,697 tier status miles and pay 4,117.20. When i go to redeem those miles, I am entitled to a 15% mileage discount for online bookings. I can then book a free first class flight from tpe-lax and it will cost me 110,500 miles. Or I can book the same flight on UA and earn the same number of miles but pay $7,144.90 while flying a vastly inferior product. To fly the tpe-lax route first class on an award ticket will cost me 120,000 FF miles. And I'm the one getting ripped off?

[nickbot]

Oh to have 120,000 miles at my disposal right now taipeiflyer Presently doing the maths to scrape together about that amount each for mrs nickbot and I for a very special trip I'm planning (still at the concept stage ) Aforementioned maths involve selling my soul to PriorityClub/Amex et al. with many convoluted points swaps in between!! Will be sure to publish my train of thought here on SQTalk for advice from the experts!

[d_exmen]

Taipeiflyer: First off, why would anyone paid F class on UA out of their own pocket? I live in Bay Area so for me to fly SFO – Asia. I do a lot of business in Hsinchu so I fly quite a bit to TPE so I will use the mileage calculation from SFO – TPE. From SFO – TPE on C-class using UA, I paid $0.00 because my company paid for it. I get 8068 miles including fare bonus. I also get 8068 bonus miles for UA 1K member. Base on that mileage alone, I can get 1 F class in 8 round trips. According to your calculation, your round trip is 11,879 miles. So you need 120K for 1 F class. Your best case is 110,500 with 15% discount. You'll need 11 round trips @ $4117.20 = $45.289K. The most my company ever paid for my C-Class tix is 3500USD. So I need 8 round trips @ 3500USD = 28.0K USD. Any question? BTW, I remember that if you use Singapore Airlines Mileage to travel from US west coast to SE Asia. I would need to have 180K miles. But UA is only 120K. Any more question?

[d_exmen]

By the way I do have SQ mileage too. I dumped all my miles because some time my company buys cheap discounted fare that I can not get any mile from SQ. With UA, you'll get 100% of the mile regardless of how restricted or cheap discounted the fare is. UA may not have the prettiest fly attendant or nicest product. But their mileage program by far the best in the industry. Lord help us for the flight attendant....

[jjpb3]

By the way I do have SQ mileage too. I dumped all my miles because some time my company buys cheap discounted fare that I can not get any mile from SQ. With UA, you'll get 100% of the mile regardless of how restricted or cheap discounted the fare is. UA may not have the prettiest fly attendant or nicest product. But their mileage program by far the best in the industry. Lord help us for the flight attendant....

No FFP, not even MP, can award miles on SQ fares that don't earn miles on KF. Are you referring to discounted fares on other airlines?

[d_exmen]

No FFP, not even MP, can award miles on SQ fares that don't earn miles on KF. Are you referring to discounted fares on other airlines?

Yep. My company bought SQ flight # SQ 001/002 economy class from SFO - SIN. When I checked in and gave my Krisflyer number, she told me that the fare was deeply discounted so I can not get any mileage. Like I said with UA MP, even if it's a deep discounted fare, I still get 100% miles plus 100% more for being 1K member. I fly to TPE, SIN, and SGN at least once every 2-3 weeks.

[taipeiflyer]

Taipeiflyer: First off, why would anyone paid F class on UA out of their own pocket? I live in Bay Area so for me to fly SFO – Asia. I do a lot of business in Hsinchu so I fly quite a bit to TPE so I will use the mileage calculation from SFO – TPE. From SFO – TPE on C-class using UA, I paid $0.00 because my company paid for it. I get 8068 miles including fare bonus. I also get 8068 bonus miles for UA 1K member. Base on that mileage alone, I can get 1 F class in 8 round trips. According to your calculation, your round trip is 11,879 miles. So you need 120K for 1 F class. Your best case is 110,500 with 15% discount. You'll need 11 round trips @ $4117.20 = $45.289K. The most my company ever paid for my C-Class tix is 3500USD. So I need 8 round trips @ 3500USD = 28.0K USD. Any question? BTW, I remember that if you use Singapore Airlines Mileage to travel from US west coast to SE Asia. I would need to have 180K miles. But UA is only 120K. Any more question? By the way I do have SQ mileage too. I dumped all my miles because some time my company buys cheap discounted fare that I can not get any mile from SQ. With UA, you'll get 100% of the mile regardless of how restricted or cheap discounted the fare is. UA may not have the prettiest fly attendant or nicest product. But their mileage program by far the best in the industry. Lord help us for the flight attendant....
D_exmen: there is a huge flaw in your reasoning. First off, you are assuming that all of the members here are 1K members, which would entitle them to the 100% bonus on UA flights. Second, to get the 100% bonus, you have to fly UA metal. you are on an SQ board, so you have to assume that most of the fliers on here are utilizing SQ metal for their flights. As such, if crediting their miles to Mileage Plus, they don't receive a 100% bonus for their flights on SQ. Despite this, I will still show you that there is very little difference between SQ and UA's mileage programs for a flier like myself. TPE-LAX is 6788 air miles one way. If I buy a UA C class ticket at $4198.90, i will automatically receive 150% status miles, of which 125% are redeemable. 6788 x 125% = 8485 redeemable miles. As a 1K member, I will also get a 100% mileage bonus, meaning I receive 16,970 miles one way, or 33,940 miles RT. In order to utilize a saver award ticket at 90,000 miles, I will need to fly 3 RTs, spending $12,596.70, and accumulating 101,820 redeemable miles in the process. If I buy an SQ C class ticket at $2830.52, I will automatically receive 125% bonus for business class travel, as well as a 25% tier bonus as a PPS member. Therefore, I receive 10,182 redeemable miles for a one-way ticket, or 20,364 miles for RT travel. By utilizing the online redemption, a business class saver ticket requires 93,500 miles, meaning i will need to fly 5 RTs, spending $14,152.60, and accumulating 101,820 redeemable miles in the process. As such, in order to achieve an award ticket thru KF, I am only spending $1555.90 more, but enjoying the luxury of SQ along the way. If I am flying SQ C class to begin with (which i do), and crediting my miles to UA, I am not receiving the 100% bonus. Therefore, I am only earning 8,485 redeemable miles for every SQ TPE-LAX flight. Meaning that after 5 RTs on SQ metal, I will have only earned 84,850 UA miles, not even enough for a round-trip business ticket. As demonstrated above, by crediting my miles to SQ, I will have earned 101,820 KF miles, more than enough for a RT ticket. In addition, you say the most your company ever paid for your C class travel is $3500, but just a cursory look at UA flights for both SFO-TPE and SFO-SGN shows that those fares are twice that threshold, so I'm a little confused.

[KeithMEL]

I thought it's best to start a new thread as the discussion has moved on to a totally different topic.

Keith

[jjpb3]

Yep. My company bought SQ flight # SQ 001/002 economy class from SFO - SIN. When I checked in and gave my Krisflyer number, she told me that the fare was deeply discounted so I can not get any mileage. Like I said with UA MP, even if it's a deep discounted fare, I still get 100% miles plus 100% more for being 1K member. I fly to TPE, SIN, and SGN at least once every 2-3 weeks.

If the paid flight in SQ Y earns no KF miles, it's because the booking class was V, G, Q, N or T. No partner mileage program will award miles for that flight because SQ will not buy the miles from the FFP. The 100% bonus for 1K's is irrelevant, because the flights you cited (SQ1/2) are operated and marketed by SQ, not UA. For those particular flights (i.e., deep discount SQ Y), there is no difference between KF and MP.

As pointed out by taipeiflyer, you only forgo the 1K bonus if you were considering banking with KF when flying on UA -- but it's not true that you forgo the base mileage, because KF does give miles on UA's discount Y classes.

[HUGE AL]

Personally, in this scenario, I think LH's M&M is a better choice.

[taipeiflyer]

Personally, in this scenario, I think LH's M&M is a better choice.

As with all things HUGE AL, it depends. Only until recently have I begun crediting my miles to M&M. Before that, for me at least, KF was the best use of my miles. Flying as PPS in Bus, you automatically get 125% of your miles plus an extra 25% as a PPS. When you couple that with the 15% discount for online bookings, and LH's higher mileage requirements, I don't feel like I lost out on too many miles by banking with KrisFlyer. If i was flying a 10,000 mile route on SQ, I would get 15,000 KF miles one-way (12,500 for Biz class, plus 2,500 PPS mileage credit). If the miles were credited to M&M, I would get 200% award mileage, or 20,000 miles one-way. A first class saver award ticket is 130,000 KF miles hkg-sfo, but 180,000 M&M miles. When you factor in the 15% online booking savings, you only need 110,500 KF miles, which would require 4 RT flights in the above scenario. If the flights are credited to M&M, it's 5 flights in the above scenario. So although I feel like I lost some miles number wise, utilization wise I feel like I came out ahead. But, it really depends on how each individual flyer utilizes them i guess. Now that a first class has been added to the TPE-LAX route, it makes more sense to credit to M&M because 300% mileage credit makes a big difference. And the no expiration on M&M is a very attractive feature.

[CGK]

..., it really depends on how each individual flyer utilizes them i guess. ...

Yes, each individual has its own so-called-best FFP for his/her own benefits. It depends to toomany factors, such as class of service, the yearly flying pattern, what to do with the miles. I am fortunate enough to be able to spread my miles in few FFPs. Thus, that's the reason why it's kind of hard to say which FFP is the best. Each has its own uniqueness and benefits for me so far.

For example, since I have been with UA for 20 years, I do like UA MP. Being 1K, with 6 SWUs every year is a beneficial as well as the confirmed north america upgrades E-cert. Of course there is a drawback, but I do accept it as it is. As part of choosing UA MP. I am aware that it's difficult to redeem the flights for UA premium class. Or for the upgrades, we have to play waiting games, and sometimes up till at the gate. (In this case, SQ waitlists usually are cleared and helped by the status as QPP or KF EG or even KF ES. Same for LH, being SEN, the waitlist for upgrades for example, most of the time cleared for me being SEN)
Yes, UA seems offering lowering total miles for redemption. But again, there is the plus and the minus. As an example, LAX-LHR-LAX is pratically non-existence award using UA miles for NZ flight. I was able to sample the herring bone style C seats on NZ C, thanks to AC AP and LH M&M. And several times, I called UA MP, and they just did not see any award availability on LH, due to LH blocked their inventory from UA miles users (this is according to the UA agent).
In the other hand, LH M&M award require so much miles... Like flying JFK-SIN is impossible through Europe (needs higher miles due to 3 different zoning), but oly through Pacific. But I like the fact that there is that allowance for deficit being SEN, as well as the X-mas gift 20% award discount. And looks like so far, I have no trouble redeeming using LH M&M miles.
SQ, yes, I used to put some miles in my account, just to make sure I have enough to do an upgrade. Sometimes strange thing happened. Paid class using $$$ is not available. But the award or upgrade award (X, I, O) is available. Go figure.
Thus, each FFP has its own advantages and disadvantages. And we, as frequent flyer savvy, know which FFP to bank the miles, and it really depends on our view of those plus and minuses which would give us the most benefits for us.

[taipeiflyer]

thanks so much for your perspective cgk! it's always nice to get your valuable insight, especially for a newbie like me who's still learning things on the fly.

[HUGE AL]

My apologies taipeiflyer & CGK. I was exhausted when I posted the M&M comment. I believe what I meant was: looking at OP's example of flying UA metal in paid C to accumulate mileage to get an SQ award, perhaps M&M with the 200% bonus and (from what others have said) better luck getting award seats would be a better option -- even with the higher mileage requirement (doesn't mean much if you can't book the award seat).