Loophole ? KF miles with Amex despite cancelling flight ?

[upright man]

I bought 2 return tickets to Bali for my wife and kid a few months ago, using my Amex PPS card which earned 2 KF miles per S$1 spent.

However, I cancelled the tickets last week as my kid was sick and couldn't fly, incurring a S$75 fee for each ticket (which I can recover with a travel insurance claim).

Just wondering : since I got a refund for the tickets, wouldn't the KF miles earned with my initial Amex purchase be practically free ?

If so, what if someone bought an expensive ticket say SIN-LHR return in F for S$12,000, earned 24,000 KF miles, and later cancelled it for a fee of S$75 ? He would have gotten 24,000 KF miles for little cost ?

Hope someone can clarify this for me. Thanks in advance !

[SuperJonJon]

I had the same thought previously but after cancellation Amex does a retroactive claim for the bonus miles. It means the following month, you may see a negative KF miles balance in your Amex statement.

I am not sure if they will try to deduct from KF or they just leave the negative mileage on Amex.

[jhm]

The refund of your ticket cost will go back to your Amex and you'll be in credit by $X thousand. Spend of that $X thousand presumably won't earn more KF miles.

[upright man]

The refund of your ticket cost will go back to your Amex and you'll be in credit by $X thousand. Spend of that $X thousand presumably won't earn more KF miles.

Oh I see........

But the KF points earned with this Amex PPS card is 2 times the S$ spent on SQ tickets, so if my Amex account is credited with $X amount, I can spend on anything other than SQ tickets and still enjoy 2 times KF miles.....?

I think SuperJonJon is right - they will just have a debit amount of KF miles that I "owe" them.
That brings up another thought - what if I spend the refund amount of $, then cancel the card while there is still a debit KF miles amount ? Then I would still benefit from extra KF miles credited......

Anyway this is all hypothetical, and rather confusing, and I don't think anyone would do this, it may be illegal/fraud etc.
Thanks for your replies !

[quik!]

Yeap, that could be done, do it when you are going to cancel your card, and your KF membership altogether, and spend the miles ASAP!

That could work!

[SQFAN]

If so, what if someone bought an expensive ticket say SIN-LHR return in F for S$12,000, earned 24,000 KF miles, and later cancelled it for a fee of S$75 ? He would have gotten 24,000 KF miles for little cost ?

Nice try ....FYI I had to cancel a bunch of SIN-LHR tickets due to changes in travel plans and the KF miles 'went back the other way'.

[quik!]

[upright man]

Nice try ....FYI I had to cancel a bunch of SIN-LHR tickets due to changes in travel plans and the KF miles 'went back the other way'.

Drats, it must have been painful to see all those KF miles "go the other way" !

Well, that settles it then, thanks for all your replies !

Quik !'s idea is good : that is, quickly use the KF miles that don't "belong" to you to redeem F class flights before SQ finds out and cancels them ! Wheeeeeee.......!

[The High Flyer]

Nice try ....FYI I had to cancel a bunch of SIN-LHR tickets due to changes in travel plans and the KF miles 'went back the other way'.

Funny, I didn't see them in my account?

[upright man]

I've finally figured out how it all works (I think) :

1. Lets say you buy a SIN-DPS Y return ticket = $400 + $85 tax = $485.

2. your Amex card is charged $485 and you get 485 x 2 = 970 KF miles.

3. If you cancel the ticket, you will get a refund minus $75, ie $410 (this takes about 6 weeks) into your Amex card account.

4. They also post a -410 KF miles debit into your account. Note that the $75 cancellation charge still earns double KF as per normal.

5. Of course, you don't earn any KF miles for the next $410 spent on your Amex, cos it exists as a credited amount. In effect your $410 refunded earns zero KF miles.

6. So the nett effect is that you have paid a $75 cancellation charge, which earned 75 KF miles and 75 bonus KF miles = 150 miles. Plus a large bulk of your ticket cost is held back for 6 weeks or more while you wait for a refund.

Does all this make any sense to you ?

[SuperJonJon]

So does that not mean that you earned 560 miles (970-410) for $75? How does your credit amount affect your earned mileage? As you pay $X to pay your card bills they will show up as credit amounts in your card bill and that does not affect your mileage accrual. As they only debitted 410 KF miles, what am I missing here?